00:00:00 Chris
Hello, I am Chris Walton and welcome to this Week’s Omni Talk Retail Fast Five, brought to you exclusively by the Omni Talk Retail Podcast network. This week I decided to turn up the heat with not one, but three additional guest hosts. Yes, three additional guest hosts, Michael Prendergast and Ken Davidson of the A&M Consumer and Retail Group joined me along with Ben Miller, the host of Grocer Talk, the new hot podcast rocketing up the charts on all current events impacting the global grocery industry. In today’s episode, the four of us discuss everything from the demise of the online checkout page to how far away we all may be from a fully automated warehouse operation. Producer Ella, let’s get to today’s show.
00:00:45 Ken
For me, it’s sort of Amazon robots.
00:00:47 Michael
Equals yes, as my kids would say who are late teens, don’t sleep on Walmart.
00:00:52 Ben
When they say designed to complement the workforce, they are literally saying that these are not the droids you’re looking for. Move along.
00:00:59 Chris
Any merchant can pick something new. A good merchant creates an assortment strategy number one.
00:01:05 Michael
I totally agree. I think checked out is dead already.
00:01:09 Ken
I like being the contrarian.
00:01:10 Chris
Beauty is a hard business to go into on your private label site.
00:01:14 Ken
I think you’ll very quickly get to a fully automated world within a couple of years.
00:01:17 Chris
Here, Michael Prendergast of the A&M Consumer and Retail Group. How have you been?
00:01:25 Michael
Great, Chris. Good to see you. Can’t believe the summer’s almost over, but still enjoying the last moments of good weather up here in the northeast.
00:01:31 Chris
I know. Have you been having a good summer?
00:01:33 Michael
I’ve had an awesome summer, so got some greater time with the family and then we’ve been super busy travelling around the country helping retailers. So. Yeah, it’s been great.
00:01:44 Chris
Yeah, me too. When was the last time you were on the show? I always love when you’re on the show. You’re one of my faves.
00:01:48 Michael
Yeah, thank you. Appreciate that. Love being on. It’s been a while because I, we had, we had scheduled one and then I had a CEO board meeting come up and I couldn’t, couldn’t make the last one. So it’s been quite a few months. So. Happy to be back and good to see you.
00:02:02 Chris
Yeah, me too. Yeah, I missed it when we. Yeah, we had a few, like, last minute, like client cancellations that happened as a result of things. But yeah, it’s good to see you. It’s good to see you. And Ken Davidson, welcome. This is your first time on the show.
00:02:15 Ken
Hey, great to be here, Chris. And I’m. Nice to meet you all. But no good summer for me too. Good. Like Michael, good time with the family. I’m based in. In Minneapolis up in Minnesota. So I’m. I’m sorry to say on the, on the weekend, I got some good R and R up on the North Shore, Lake Superior, but there was just the twinge of a couple of trees here and there deciding to change their colour and I thought, oh, boy, that’s. That’s way too soon.
00:02:38 Chris
Oh, wow, the sign of fall. So Michael’s been on the show before, Ken, but. But this is your first time, like I said, so why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
00:02:47 Ken
Yeah, happy to. So Canadian originally, but Minneapolis for 20 plus years. Yeah. Actually started in industry. I was at General Mills and at Best Buy in industry marketing roles for a number of years and then I did 14 years at BCG Boston Consulting in Minneapolis and have been at A and M since last year and all. All retail, mostly focused merchandising store ops and econ digital and. Wife and two daughters at home. Two. Two girls in college.
00:03:15 Chris
Nice. Well, Canada. Canada is the northern brother of Minnesota because our accents are about as close as they can get, Ken, so. So. All right. Well, Ben Miller, you’re the last of this illustrious quartet that we’ve got today. My brother from another mother across the Atlantic, the host of Grocer Talk. How are you doing today?
00:03:33 Ben
Oh, really good, thank you, Chris. It’s so. It’s so good. It’s so nice to be back on the fast five. Thank you for. Thank you for having me back.
00:03:41 Chris
Are you keeping busy? Are you keeping busy? Is this Omni Talk retail podcast network thing keeping you pretty busy? Oh, yeah.
00:03:48 Ben
Keeping gamefully employed. Gameplay. No, no. Grocer Talk, I’m absolutely delighted to say, is flying. We just recorded and released the third episode yesterday with Stuart Samuel from igd. And Stuart is not only is he one of the most clear people I know on retail, he’s also one of the nicest people. So look, if grocery and CPG is your thing, come and cheque us out at grocertalk. And of course, it is September now, which also means conference season. So you. Yeah, getting very busy to get on the road soon.
00:04:19 Chris
Yeah. Right. And we’ve got. That’s a great tease too, because we’ve got a special highlight around one of those conferences coming up in our five insightful minutes segment. All right, gentlemen, well, let’s get to it. Today’s Fast5 is brought to you of course by the A&M Consumer and Retail Group Mirakl, Quorso, Ocampo Capital, Veloq and R&S Logistics. In this week’s Fast Five, we’ve got news on Target opening its new post Ulta Beauty destination Target Beauty Studio Sir Latab launching a peer to peer resale marketplace Stripes President of Technology and Business predicting the death of the online checkout page Amazon reportedly developing Project Tetromino. Yes, that’s a real name, which is an internal push toward fully automated delivery stations.
And as I mentioned before, Raquan Lucas joins us for five insightful minutes to give us a preview of my favourite conference every year and and that is Grocery Shop. But we begin today with Walmart taking its restaurant delivery ambitions beyond its four walls. Headline number one is of course brought to you with the help and support of our friends at the A&M Consumer and Retail Group. The A&M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential. CRG brings the experience, tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies be on the right side of disruption all right, here we go. Walmart is expanding restaurant delivery beyond just the Subway locations inside its own stores, with SVP of Digital Fulfilment transformation Greg Cathy signalling that the retailer also wants to bring meals from restaurants near Walmart stores into the Walmart app, according to a LinkedIn post via Cathy’s own LinkedIn account. Yes, Walmart began piloting express delivery of meals from in store Subway restaurants earlier this summer, with the service live in select stores across Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas and expanding to roughly 1400 locations by the end of the summer.
Kathy detailed out that nearly 65% of restaurant orders were delivered alongside a Walmart grocery or essentials order. And Walmart also says that one in five orders combining a restaurant item with a Walmart item is a customer’s first time using express delivery this year, with nearly 30% of those new customers returning within the next 30 days. Kathy framed the long term opportunity around proximity, noting that quick service restaurant brands are generally located within five miles of a Walmart store, which could put Walmart in more direct competition with DoorDash and Uber Eats over time. Ken, as the newbie on the Omnitoc Retail Fast five, I’m going to you first. Walmart is signalling that it wants to use its store footprint as a delivery network for restaurants it doesn’t even own. Is this a genuine threat to DoorDash and UberEats just a nice bolt on to grocery delivery or something in the middle.
00:07:22 Ken
I think just really at the end of the day it’s a logical idea, but it’s mostly a nice bolt on really. Yeah, there’s a few things. One is of course it’s very logical to say, okay, if I’m doing a lot of home delivery anyway from the stores, we’ve got Subway in the stores, you know, what can we add on? Also that tends to be, you know, a good temperature state food service in terms of the timing of it. If you back up though, you know, if you were fundamentally going to get in competition with DoorDash and UberEats and we’ve done some work on, on last mile delivery companies, you know, the economics are very, very challenging in the first place. And then you’ve got the point about the operations. You know, if I’m running, if I’m Walmart, I’m running a truck down someone’s street, you know, once or twice a day. That’s very, very different operationally than having sort of an army of gig workers out there that can go point to point at any time of the day. And so those agreements that the doordash Uber eats of the world have with, you know, McDonald’s, other QSRs, other types of restaurants can be very, very sophisticated and you really need a lot of customization, you need a lot of integration in terms of the systems and other pieces to make it work. And so again, you know, they may, There may be one or two other QSRs where proximity or, you know, the type of food could make it a logical add on. It’s obviously a huge customer base. They’ve done a great job with Walmart. Plus expanding, yeah. The footprint and you know, who’s eligible to participate? The households in the U.S. is, you know, amazing, you know, on par with Amazon. But at the end of the day, my take is, you know, fundamentally different consumer need, fundamentally different operational service. And so I would imagine it would be, you know, a little bit of an add on for the subways and the like, but minimal in total.
00:09:06 Chris
Okay, got it. Okay, so you’re thinking it’s kind of, you’re kind of going with the bolt on answer there, Ken. All right, you’re thinking it’s a way for Walmart to defray the cost of the delivery overall, I might disagree with you a little bit. We’re going to start the show off hot here. But before I give my, my take, I want to go to Michael. Yeah, Michael, what do you think?
00:09:23 Michael
Yeah, I’m in the same camp as my kids would say who are late teens, don’t sleep on Walmart. I think Walmart, okay, is by far the gorilla in any marketplace they get into. I think the gorilla takes a bit to wake up and get out of bed and get into the gym and then get into the village and start having a gorilla presence. But I think this is a huge step for them and I actually think it’s all three things that you outlined, Chris. I think it is competition, I think it’s a bolt on, I think it’s something in between and I think Ken’s right. The, the operational tactical details are complicated but somehow some way Walmart always figures that out and they’re usually later to the party than most and most people discount their ability to get into these evolving and innovative markets. But we just did some work where I realised that Walmart, if not all to digital pricing tickets so they can system wide update pricing and take markdowns that saves an incredible amount of labour costs across the board and you would never expect Walmart to be that cutting edge but overnight they just did it it. So I think, I think this is an incredible move for them, unexpected. And I think, I think the others, the competition should definitely be watching out.
00:10:55 Chris
Yeah, I love that answer Michael. I love how you said it’s all three because that’s why I wrote the question. I actually think it’s all three too but I was curious to see what conversation it engenders. I agree with you because the point I would make too is and you have to answer that question now but you also have to answer that question looking into the future 10 years and to me it’s the Venn diagram of where the Walmart stores are located, where the Walmart stores are located, how many adjacent QSRs are in those strip malls. And then you add in the drone delivery capabilities from those strip malls and that changes the economics of this and the long term potential of this very significantly. Because the other point I would add, and then I’m going to go to Ben to get his final take here is, you know, for me when I need something quick, I go to Walmart. Like I actually have been going to Walmart for my quick delivery needs over Amazon. Like the other day I was on Amazon shopping for something and I was like why do I even need prime anymore? Like Walmart has gotten its hooks into me on the speed of delivery and so I think that’s another factor here in the long term. But Ben, what do you Think, yeah.
00:12:02 Ben
And I think those speed of delivery and repeat rates that were quoted in the storey that you said up front are really interesting. Now look, it is a blog post by a company employee, but you’ve got to. I’m going to take it on face.
00:12:13 Chris
Value, which is fascinating in and of itself, but yeah, go exactly.
00:12:17 Ben
I mean the repeat rate, the trial rate, it’s all about moving people to get used to this even quicker delivery. And we know that’s all about density. So it’s fascinating seeing this flipped. You know, the reason the doordash and Uber eats got into grocery is to drive that odd density and utilisation. So it’s seen the same principles in reverse. But I think the final point. I love that you’ve raised drones, Chris. Last, early last year I went to one of the Walmart stores in the Dallas Fort Worth area, that’s right where, where they were running wing drones out the car park. And I took some photos and some videos. If I were to turn around and I went on Google Maps just to double cheque to look at the car park immediately behind me was a Dunkin Doughnuts, a Wing Stop, a Taco Bells and an in out Burger. So there’s the opportunity, you don’t have to over complicate the route optimization to add this as a bolt on and I think I agree with you. I think it’s fantasising.
00:13:13 Chris
Wow.
00:13:13 Rocquan
Wow.
00:13:13 Chris
Okay, Ken, we gotta let you back in here because I think the three of us, I think, I think the three of us technically disagreed with you and find that this is probably more, more than just hype in our opinion. But so you get the last word here, Ken, what do you want to say?
00:13:26 Ken
I like, I like being the contrarian. I think the one thing I would say is yeah, I think you’re right on the drone piece. If, if the drone piece actually gets figured out and it can cover sufficient part of the country so that doesn’t change the game on the economics a hundred percent.
00:13:42 Chris
Yeah, right, right. That is a, that is a key factor. And what about that personal post from Greg Cathy too, like this Walmart’s the biggest company in the, you know, in retail and they’re letting people do that. That’s just amazing to me. That’s why, that’s why I think Walmart’s onto something too. And when they’re talking about it like that in that way, it also is a signal generally that they’re on to something or they’re very confident in what.
00:14:04 Ken
They’re doing as well because the one thing they’ve been very, very good at is they’re, you know, continue to drive sales and growth on the existing asset base of the stores.
00:14:14 Chris
Right.
00:14:14 Ken
So the store count has not gone up. In fact it’s down a little bit. And yet sales continue to grow and grow and grow because they are driving it through digital platforms, through Walmart plus through delivery and so kind of sweating the assets in that way. That’s their wheelhouse. Yeah, right.
00:14:28 Chris
And even if it is just an add on, that’s still a really smart move too. You know, to your point, Michael, you sounded like you want to say something and then what Ben introduces.
00:14:36 Michael
I was just gonna say they’re, they’re so incredibly clever. That guaranteed that post was premeditated and.
00:14:42 Chris
Oh yeah,.
00:14:45 Michael
Especially in the digital marketing age, in this sort of new evolution of digital marketing. So I, and once again I love it, I think and Walmart for me has always been something that I love and, and watch and admire because so many people have counted them out so many times and have been anti Walmart. And I honestly, they’re amazing. I, I think they’re super progressive. One of the, one of, I used to love telling the storey one of the, the topics of like cocktail parties whenever I told anybody it was in retail years ago and they were talking about Amazon, they’re like, oh, Amazon’s going to kill Walmart, right? Walmart’s done. And the answer is no. I think Walmart is an incredibly progressive yet quietly progressive entity.
00:15:31 Ben
And that’s the watch out for everybody else in the market as Walmart and Amazon and Uber and Doordash build these delivery networks at increasing speed and increasing density. How does everyone catch up? Fantastic to watch. Okay, I’m going to take us on to headline number two. And this headline is brought to you by Miracle, the catalyst of Commerce. Over 450 retailers opening new revenue streams with marketplaces, dropship, retail media. And succeeding with Miracle, you can unlock more products, more partners and more profits without the heavy lifting. So what’s holding you back? Visit miracle.com to learn more. And from the first headline on Walmart, we move appropriately to headline number two to Target which is launching Target Beauty Studio, a new beauty destination rolling out September 10th across more than 600 stores and online. Featuring over 1600 products from 90 brands, more than 2/3 of them are new to Target.
Now, according to modern retail, Target Beauty Studio will carry skincare, makeup, hair care, fragrance, bath, body and nail products with rotating editors, picks and most loved features, a dedicated MIDI assortment and employees called Beauty Advisors offering personalised recommendations. Several brands told Modern retail that curated experimental format is what convinced them to sell at Target for the first time. A hair care founder said the brand has done more than seven figures on Amazon, but this marks its first, first brick and mortar retailer. While a skincare brand, clearstream has hit 50 million in sales last year and it’s also making its first physical retail push through this launch. We’ve got a 70 year old Italian skincare brand already sold at Macy’s, Neimo, Marcus, Bloomingdale’s Ultra and Amazon. That said, it was up 38 in sales last year and expects 60% growth this year, potentially doubling next year because of the Target launch. So Michael, is Target Beauty Studio a legitimate means to comp the space ulta left behind or do you expect choppy waters ahead for Target?
00:18:00 Michael
So it’s a, it’s a very interesting move to me on their part and I think one of the things that Target is super special about is providing brand names at great prices. However, at times, especially in the apparel segment where they have brands that they may have licenced and brought in over time they convert them to licenced models and then they convert them into their own private label and generally speaking when they turn it into their own private label, the, the success is not as great it was when it was the original step into a branded entity. So you lose Alta. Okay, so that’s a step away from a branded entity. However, you bring in more micro oriented brands that are singles, single setup brands. So I like that and I think that’s an interesting opportunity for them and I actually think Target is best served when they do take more control over their merchant presentations, pricing presentations and promotional presentations.
However, will they have the fortitude to stick with the margin structure of these branded entities or will they automatically start to default and say we have enough capacity, we have enough purchasing velocity, we should be doing this on our own and therefore we can increment our margin 10, 20, 30 points. So think that’s really the question of will they stick with the strategy and expand the strategy to offer brands to their customer base or will they get into sort of the old vortex of starting with brands and then incrementally which eventually turns into an exponential move into their own private label offering. I, I think the Target customer wants brands, needs brands and brands resonate with them. But I think the jury’s out on this one.
00:20:07 Ben
So Michael, I think what I’m hearing, I’m just going to go to Ken next is actually it’s not so much a Format play. It’s a merchandising play, which is really interesting. So, Ken, what’s your take on the storey?
00:20:18 Ken
Yeah, I’m bullish on this one for a couple of reasons. Okay. Yeah. So one is. So first of all, Target just really is a very good destination for beauty and they’ve done a nice job historically. They’ve got the right sort of customer profile, customer base for it. You find, you know, the beauty industry itself is always on the lookout for new and increased ways of distribution, especially with the decline of department stores and things like that. And, and you know, the merchandising, what they’re able to bring in terms of in store experience, you know, has traditionally been excellent. So that’s number one. Number two, the Alta partnership from the outside was always a little curious because you never knew exactly how the economics worked. And at the end of the day, retail margins aren’t great. And now if you have two players splitting the pie, if you will, there was all those questions there about, okay, in the long term, how is this going to run? And then number three, to Michael’s point, they’re very, very good at, you know, new brand, new brand introductions, bringing in innovation and scaling it up across the country.
Lots of suppliers, especially new suppliers, want to work with them for that reason. And beauty, you know, it offers good margins, it’s a good traffic driver. And probably, you know, on the whole, you always want the new innovation, the new trends is trend driven. And so in the long term, Target doesn’t have to worry too much about, oh, can we, can we private label a lot of this stuff? Because it’s really about the innovation cycle and getting those new brands in. And so there’ll always be something new at Target. In fact, my daughter, you know, from what I can tell, they tend to use Target as the equivalent of the mall these days in sense of, you know, we, we used to go to the mall, they know they go to Target. And Target has been incorporating, you know, if you look at it, portions of kind of the old classic mall into the store and delivering a bit of that 360 experience. And I think beauty is always going to be a core piece of that.
00:22:13 Ben
Chris, I can see you nodding and shaking at various times. What’s your, what’s your read on this one?
00:22:19 Chris
Yeah, there’s a couple of nuance points. I think, you know, Michael’s points, I probably more aligned with what Michael was saying as opposed to Ken, which I don’t know why I’m disagreeing with Ken straight off the bat. Show but, but one point, the one point I would disagree with Michael is like, you know, beauty is a hard business to go into on your private label side too. So the model that they use for the rest of the store is difficult in beauty. I think where I disagree with Ken though is I actually think, I actually think this is a really dangerous move, I think from a comp perspective and also potentially what it highlights in terms of the strategy of the merchandising team at Target. So like my first inclination was the old saying danger Will Robinson, danger here. Because let’s not forget Ulta’s doing really well in the marketplace. Like they their Last earnings report, 4% comp, 9% sales growth overall, they beat analysts expectations. Who needs who more in this relationship, Right?
And so last time I checked as well, Ulta was the comp driver that was singled out in many, many Target earnings reports last year and the year before. So that is scary in and of itself. And secondly, all the new brands Target’s going after, like we’re seeing that through, not just in beauty, we’re seeing that as a strategy throughout the store. They’re also hyping that up in grocery, as you know, Ben and I think talked about on your Grocery Talk podcast recently. But new doesn’t always mean sellable. New just means new. And generally speaking, these brands are smaller for a reason because they’re not ready for prime time. And so I’m all for newness. But if Target is using newness as its merchandising strategy, look out. Because it doesn’t take as a former merchant, it doesn’t take a good merchant to pick something new. Any merchant can pick something new. A good merchant creates an assortment strategy. A good merchant picks assortment. So I hope Target knows what it’s doing here instead of just casting its lot with all these new brands throughout the store. Because that could be very dangerous and very, very markdown laden down the road.
00:24:17 Ben
You know what Chris, I think there’s, there’s some bits of that I agree with, there’s some bits I don’t, but I, I’m quite bullish. I’ll tell you for why I, I, I think when you look at the images there, there’s the format. So first of all the kind of the store format, store operations piece, it looks good. So I like what they’ve done with table. I like giving attention to trending products. And look, I think we’ve got to admit, whilst Ulta as a business is doing well, some of those concessions were starting to look a bit tired. So I think bringing some freshness to the store presentation is right. Where I completely agree is with Michael that this is about the merchandising play. And I think, you know, I think I said this on Grocery Talk yesterday, but I’ve been reflecting more overnight. I think right now being a merchant in beauty at Target is one of the most exciting jobs you could have in retail. Why do I say that? Because beauty is so different as a category to five years ago when the Ulta partnership started.
It’s all about not the big established brands that Target needed to buy and get the relationships with. It’s about finding trending things. It’s about finding what’s hot on TikTok. It’s about competing with TikTok shop rather than necessarily with other physical retailers. The challenge of finding those products, as you said and Chris, bringing them into store, scaling them, getting ready, that’s a huge challenge. But that’s also super exciting because you get this right, it lays down the foundation that says we are back as Target to be able to do trend forward merchandising because that’s stage two in the recovery. Stage one is sort the store ops out. Stage two is taper everybody. As Ked mentioned, this is the place to go. You’ve got to get it. They’ve lost the eye of that but this is, this is the opportunity to get it back. What do you think, Ken?
00:26:06 Ken
I totally agree, Ben. I mean, I think you have two things in what you said, Chris. So number one, it is true, you know, there’s no guarantee of success. But if I’m going to bet on a merchandising team to get it right and to find the right brands and get them in store and get the scale and cover the cost of the turnover and so forth. I’m betting on that Target beauty merchandising team. So I’ll take the bet with you on that one and then on the, on the altar piece. Yeah, it’s tricky. None of us knows what goes on on the inside and maybe, maybe Target was happier with the deal than Ulta. We don’t know exactly, you know, so Target may have not had a choice or, or just indeed decided they wanted to go their own way. But I think if you’re going to bet on, you know, beauty at Target, I’ll put my money there.
00:26:46 Chris
All right, well, I get the last word on this one then because I think you’re, I think you’re betting on the legacy of Target’s merchandising team. The legacy reputation of Target’s merchandising team versus the actual merchandising team and the credibility they should deserve given the last three or four years of business. All right, Headline number three. Headline number three is brought to you by Corso. Your stores are full of data, but are your teams acting on it? Corso turns retail data into personalised daily to dos that drive sales, reduce waste and improve execution. No fluff, just action. Help your managers focus on what matters most. Visit corso.com to see Intelligent Management in Motion. Headline number three. Surla Tab has launched a peer to peer resale marketplace. I can’t wait to talk about this. And it’s called Second Servings. Partnering with resale technology platform Archive to let customers sell used kitchenware, home goods and dining products directly to other shoppers.
According to Retail Dive, the US only platform lets sellers use prepaid shipping labels to send in eligible items in exchange for either 70% off the sale price in cash or 100% in Sur La Tab. Store Credit Archive, which powers the back end, customer support, payment processing and logistics for Second Servings, also runs branded resale platforms for the North Face, Lululemon and others and raised $30 million in Series B financing in February of 2025. Sir the table, it should be mentioned also filed for bankruptcy in July of 2020 and was purchased a month later by a joint venture between marquee brands and CSE generation for just $88.9 million. Ken is a peer to peer resale marketplace, a smart play for a kitchenware retailer or do you think it is a distraction for a brand that’s only a few years removed from bankruptcy?
00:28:31 Ken
I’ll split the difference, Chris. I’ll say it’s smart, but it’s limited. So, okay, meaning you know a lot of these peer to peer marketplaces and many times, you know, if you just look back over the years, you’ll see headlines of different folks doing it. It’s the kind of thing where it’s a natural bolt on, right? You’ve got enthusiasts of whatever the sector are, they’re already interacting with your brand, with your stores. There’s a resale marketplace, a secondary marketplace out there you know about now you get someone that can come in and fulfil and essentially do the work for you in terms of, you know, running the platform and the buyers and the sellers. And so for someone like Srila Taub, it’s a logical bolt on it’s good margin in a sense because you don’t really assume any of it costs and so it’s essentially a commission type business.
So it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t cost you much. It shouldn’t be that much of a distraction for the employees. But the counter to that is, you know, how big are these things in the end and how many of them really do accrete, you know, significant value? I would imagine sort of the, the uptake and the usage of this would be. Would be quite limited. I don’t know what their expectations would be obviously, but you, you’re, you’re down to a subset of a subset of a. Of subset, subset. When you get folks that are engaging in the secondary market, folks that are willing to use you versus eBay or some other established platforms and then the subset of the transactions that actually happen. So when you do that sort of chain, I think it’s a logical kind of high margin bolt on. But I question if it’ll actually move the needle in terms of the bottom line.
00:30:03 Chris
So you think it’s like an okay thing to do. It shouldn’t be that big of a distraction. But you just wonder how big the pie is. That’s your take here.
00:30:09 Rocquan
Yeah.
00:30:10 Ken
Basically it’s not wrong to do it and it shouldn’t cost a lot from them in terms of resources, but doubts on whether it’ll move the needle.
00:30:19 Chris
Yeah. Ben, do you agree with that?
00:30:22 Ben
Yeah, I agree completely. I sort of want to love it more than I do. I think resale is going to be really big. Is one of my big predictions for this year, that resale will genuinely start to scale. This feels very niche. I agree with everything. As Ken has said, it looks like the supplier that they’re working with has brought, you know, a really nice solution that creates a relatively light lift and therefore light distraction for sure. The problem, of course, is getting people onto the platform and that will ultimately fall to suit up. That will fall to their CRM, their mailings, their use of their. You only have so many bullets as we know, to be able to fire at your customers to be. And then the chamber is empty. And if they’re going to be using them to encourage them to get onto the resale platform, they’re not selling them full price. So that’s where I worry that the distraction will come in. There’s no doubt that cookware, in fact premium cookware, there is a resale market for it. There are a lot of listings on ebay. I do worry about the distraction here though.
00:31:25 Chris
Yeah, the ebay point’s really interesting too because I actually, I mean, I’m going to go a little bit stronger. I think this is a Total waste of time.
00:31:31 Michael
Time, yeah. As my Gen Z kids would say, don’t be a hater. I’m a total hater on this and I have been over the long term, the resale sites, I just don’t understand. I understand the model, I understand the excitement around them. Operationally I think they’re a disaster and they’re not going to work. And over the long term I just don’t understand how they can profit from the SKU intensity management that’s required. So when I hear Sirlo tab and I hear the really the home furnishings or home areas and I think of the SKU intensity that’s involved in operating it, I just, I don’t see a future for it. I don’t think it’s going to work.
00:32:14 Chris
Yeah. And the other point I would bring up too because I think the interesting thing here is in the very same week Urban came out and said that Nuuly is driving significant comps for them, which is their basically effort to do the same thing. But apparel resale is very different from the resale that we’re talking about here with sir the Top because you’re talking about reselling branded manufactured items like KitchenAid Breville. I was on their site yesterday. So that’s just basically like sir the Top. You’re trying to become Facebook Marketplace or ebay. So like it’s going to become a traffic game and a traffic battle to win that game. But Ben, let’s give you the last word here and then let’s move on.
00:32:50 Ben
Yeah, I think it’s just one thing that I’d be keeping an eye on. So like yourself, I’ve been onto this site and I’ve had a look at the products currently for sale. Now they’ve had a seller only period to try and get merchandise on the site. There is very few independent peer to peer sellers on there. The majority of probably currently on there is returns damaged items, open box items from Sellota. So is this a peer to peer marketplace or is this a way for them to sell off product at a discounted rate but actually keep the customer within their own ecosystem if that’s the play and they can generate some scale and a bit of margin out of it? I’ve probably got less of an issue. I’m more worried about how do you get the volume of genuine peer to peer secondhand players on an ongoing basis. All right, let’s move on and let’s welcome Rockwell Lucas onto today’s show.
00:33:50 Chris
Joining us now for five insightful minutes is required. Lucas, he’s The VP of Content for Grocery Shop and Requirement is here to give us a preview of what to expect at this year’s upcoming conference at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino in Las Vegas from September 22nd to 24th. All right, required. Let’s start with this. Could you tell us about the themes of this year’s show and what those attending will learn from Grocery Shop next month?
00:34:15 Rocquan
Yeah, of course, Chris. So Grocery Shop Agenda is really designed to answer one pivotal question and that’s how retailers and brands can use kind of real insights and strategies that they need in order to innovate and unlock growth. And so every session that we’re hosting at the event 50 plus are going to centre around this and all the senior leaders, VP level and above from different retailers and brands are going to be tackling this one big theme. But within that we going to cover six subtopics, if you will, which is one, how can AI power more conversational and personalised shopping experiences? So whether it’s Schnucks, Kroger, Albertsons, all of those leaders are at Grocery Shop to talk about how they are building these new age shopping experiences. Two is to talk about how technology can support the fundamentals of retail. So whether it’s merchandising, supply chain marketing, e commerce, how can technology be leveraged enterprise wide for retailers and brands? The third one kind of moves beyond AI because we recognise that so much is shaping grocery and CPG and that’s the evolution of consumer behaviour.
How do you design the right products, the right assortment, the right store experiences that align with how consumers are evolving and how they’re prioritising value, how they’re demanding more easy and convenient ways to shop and their specific dietary preferences of late. Fourth is to talk about unified commerce and for us to continue to beat the drum on how do you kind of connect online and in store shopping experiences and reach consumers throughout the shopping journey. And then so the fifth one is retail media and how do you continue to expand and scale your retail media offering through in store and off site capabilities? But how do you also address those big pain points that brands have, which is around kind of measurement and transparency? And then the sixth one is related to just the grocery and CPG landscape which is recognising that consumers are continuing to trade down, they’re continuing to purchase private label products and they’re continuing to kind of channel switch. So loyalty is strained. So how do you think about winning customers but also keeping them loyal?
00:36:58 Ben
So come on, rock on, what’s new for grocery shop?
00:37:00 Michael
This year.
00:37:01 Ben
What kind of new, exciting sessions or formats have you guys been cooking up?
00:37:06 Rocquan
Yeah, Ben, that’s always a great question because the answer is so much right. But a couple that jump out to me are our tactical learning sessions. And these are sessions where retailers and brands share how they’re accomplishing two things, either implementing new technology or how they are setting up their teams for success. And what I love about these sessions are the fact that they are interactive, so the audience themselves gets a chance to participate in the conversation by asking questions of their own, but also by contributing to polling questions that help to actually guide the conversation and then also to really kind of be laser focused on insights and takeaways. Each of the sessions that we’re hosting across our tracks are going to conclude with two to three actionable next steps for organisations that will actually present on a slide. So there’s no way to miss that content.
00:38:04 Chris
So, Raquan, I know one of the things that my partner in crime was very instrumental in doing when he was working for Grocery Shop was helping you all put together unique original content for the grocery shop experience. So can you tell us about some of the original insights you are going to share with all the participants at Grocery Shop this year?
00:38:22 Rocquan
Yes, yes. We think what we’ve been kickstarted is definitely part of Grocery Shop’s evolution to kind of becoming more than just an annual event. We really ultimately want to be a resource and hub for content throughout the year. And so examples of that include the fact that we’ve been rolling out different interviews where we chat with members in the community just to discuss industry trends. And then additionally we also are building out different industry reports. And one of those reports that we’ll unveil on grocery shops, the main stage that we’re excited about is going to unveil findings around how grocers are using tech for their associates and for their shoppers, and how they’re seeing their shopping baskets evolve due to Trends such as GLP1.
00:39:12 Ben
So, Rok, I know that you can’t have favourites sat in the role you do, but we’re almost friends here. So come on, is there a speaker or a session or an activity event that you’re specifically looking forward to at the show?
00:39:25 Rocquan
Yeah, Ben, you know, that’s a tough question for me, but if I think about our speaker lineup, which we’re super excited about, it’s going to feature Instacart CEO Hy Vee’s CEO, Kroger’s Digital Officer, and if I put that part aside and take off my content hat then I think about meetup and that being activity that I’m going to be really excited and looking forward to. And that’s largely because it’s really the only programme that tailored to this specific subset of retail Grocery Convenience Club that allows these leaders from this part of retail to have one on one conversations with different partners at the event that they’re actually interested in meeting with. And so we think that because the show is pacing to bring in more retailers and brands than it did last year, that speaks to people just getting the value from this meetup programme that we’re offering, which allows them to get so many different conversations had and partnerships struck in just a few days that would have normally taken them months to accomplish.
00:40:41 Chris
Yeah, I mean Grocery Shop is my favourite conference to attend every year and there’s still time for those that are listening, hearing what you have to say required. And if those people listening are like, you know what I do want to attend, what’s the best way for them to get more information?
00:40:54 Ken
Yeah.
00:40:54 Rocquan
So the short answer is grocery shop.com there is where we’re going to provide that free full rundown of the agenda and those themes that I just mentioned. It’s also where we have kind of showcasing the different ticket options that we have available and a great way for you to get a sense of all of the things to expect at this year’s event. And what I love is that in addition to the various ticket rates that we have, we also have a free option for those who participate in our hosted programme who are executives from retailers and brands that are making tech buying decisions. So grocery shop.com is the best place to get all of that content.
00:41:36 Chris
All right, thanks, Rock Pleasure.
00:41:44 Ben
Okay, Headline number four is brought to you by Ocampo Capital. Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed through investment and operational support. Learn more at Ocampo Capital.com okay, headline number four. A top stripe executive recently said that the traditional online checkout page is on its way out, arguing agentic AI would increasingly let shoppers and eventually AI agents themselves, buy directly from a product page instead of filling out a checkout form. Okay. Stripe’s president of technology and business, Will Gabriel, said on a podcast that shoppers should be able to just buy it from a product display page, predicting that even a minimalistic version of agentic commerce would mark the end of the conventional checkout process.
Stripe has already rolled out its instant checkout feature inside ChatGPT helped develop the agentic commerce protocol with OpenAI and also recently brought agentic purchasing to Google’s Gemini. Gabriel pointed the existing quick pay tools like Stripe’s Own link and Shopify’s Shop Pay as early groundwork, whilst acknowledging agentic commerce hasn’t yet had, as he called it, its breakout moment. Michael, I’m going to come to you first on this one. Stripe is apparently betting that machines will purchase from machines. As somebody who advises retailers about where retail technology spend actually pays off. Is a gen tick checkout something retailers should be building towards now or is it years away from being a real sales channel?
00:43:35 Michael
So, three answers. Number one, I totally agree. I think checkout is dead already. I think Amazon revolutionised it and the Buy now feature is ubiquitous and I find myself getting hyper annoyed when I actually have to go through the checkout process on Amazon versus Buy Now. So I think yes, he’s absolutely correct from a strategic standpoint. The second piece is when we’ve advised dtc, either segments or companies, and when I’ve run them as either operator or as an interim CEO, one of the things we always talk about is number of clicks to purchase and really trying to create as least amount of friction as possible. So eliminating a checkout process in the click process is something that absolutely will go away. Now the third thing is quite interesting and provocative in that will machines be inserted into that process from an AI agentic standpoint and do it for us? I think yes. I think companies should be getting ahead of it for sure. I just wonder what the balance is of customer preferences, of actual shopping versus turning over everything to an AI agentic model where I potentially prompt what my likes and needs are and then the AI model figures it out for me. I don’t know how that’s going to work out. I don’t think that individuals will fully turn the purchasing process over to AI. I think they’ll want some interaction with it. But for all those things, absolutely, companies should be getting ahead of it. And I do agree. I think the checkout is dead.
00:45:29 Ben
Yeah, I think. Ken, let me bring you in at this point. Really interesting points from Michael. What’s your take on this one?
00:45:35 Ken
Yeah, 100%, 1,000% on this one. If you just fast forward five or 10 years, a couple of points. So one is even this fall. I don’t know if you guys have kept up on it, but the Siri coming to the iPhone coming in the fall is actually apparently quite good and you can start to interact and say, hey, what was that code Chris texted me A year ago to get into the door and it actually worked. Well, fast forward that five or 10 years. We’ll all be talking to our personal assistants on an ongoing basis, whether you, you think that’s, you know, scary or not. And so just imagine the shopping process then. So for example, now I already go to chat GPT or Claude and say, hey, you know, what’s the best? You know, I need a new suitcase. What’s the best suitcase? So these three are the top rated. Okay. It, it’s, you know, no additional step to say, okay, would you like me to buy it for you? Yes. Okay. Well, it comes, you know, it’s available these three places. This is the best price. These are the reviews. You can have it tomorrow from this place. And you just say, okay, you know, if it’s Amazon or Walmart or Target, just, just buy it for me.
Whoever’s got the best price. Right? And so it just completely collapses the entire purchase process. And you could even imagine getting to a state where, you know, in some cases, you know, it wouldn’t even ask you. Now, to Michael’s point, will that apply equally by every category? Absolutely not. So I think, you know, to take the easy one, you know, grocery is sort of a different beast entirely, especially with fresh produce and stuff like that. So let’s leave that authentic the table. But for things that are sort of easily researchable, reasonably low in price, I think you’ll get, you’ll very quickly get to, you know, a fully automated world within a couple of years here.
00:47:11 Ben
Okay. I mean, it must be conference season coming around if we’re talking about these storeys. So Chris, come on, where are you on the agent e Commerce hype train on this storey?
00:47:21 Chris
Oh, I think the stripe executive is exactly right. I mean, I thought it was kind of funny, like when Michael was saying like, kind of are we already kind of there? You know, like, you know, like with Amazon or even Apple Pay, like the checkout experience is pretty frictionless already. I think where I just am curious about and I’m excited to see what happens, is like conceptualising what that actually means for us with all these new tools in terms of how do I still have control within the flow. The click process that Michael was describing, that’s the big question for me. But 100% it’s coming. I think we’re probably all in resolute agreement on this one.
00:47:53 Ben
Yeah, and I really like that. I think we’re all echoing about the fact that there hasn’t been this robot to robot, machine to machine breakthrough moment. Yet if all Agent E Commerce gives us is more people have a buy now button, then we’ve failed to grasp the potential of the technology. It’s about doing something bigger to help customers in their lives more easily. And I think that’s absolutely what we’re hinting towards.
00:48:17 Chris
That’s a great way to put it, Ben. And that’s kind of why I included this headline, because I just thought it was just an interesting way for us to all think about the future. Yeah, Ken, last word.
00:48:25 Ken
Yeah. Just to give one specific example too, how it impacts retailers. Think of what it has to do to your promotional strategy then. Because if the customer isn’t always choosing the outlet, the retailer itself and just says, I want that suitcase, who’s got the best price? How do you. And we’ve been advising some of our clients already on how do you integrate your promo and your promo strategy and flow and deal flow such that you don’t unknowingly get on the offside of being left out of all these transactions that are going to be increasingly machine led.
00:48:54 Chris
Yeah, I just did a speech on that at the National Confectioners association too, Ken, where I compared a basket of Amazon versus Walmart and Albertsons. And you don’t want to be Albertsons in the world of generative AI and agentic AI doing the shopping for you. Let’s just put it that way. All right, let’s keep rolling here because we’re running a little long on today’s show. Headline number five is brought to you by Valak Veloc is a proven e grocery technology company built by grocers for grocers. They unite proprietary software with right size automation to make same day delivery profitable. To learn more, visit verloc.com that’s V E L O q.com number five. Amazon is reportedly developing an internal initiative called Project Tetromino aimed at building fully automated delivery stations, with the effort potentially relying on robotics startup Boxbot to automatically sequence packages for vehicle loading. I love headlines where I can almost not get through them with a straight face.
According to Geek Wire, citing a Business Insider report, Amazon’s delivery stations that is the final stop before packages reach the doorstep, remain largely manual today, with workers hand sorting parcels and staging them for drivers. Box Bot, an Alameda, California based robotics startup, however, uses conveyors and AI driven storage trays to automatically sequence packages for vehicle loading, a process the company says can be up to 10 times faster than manual methods. Amazon spokesperson Brad Glasser said the details cited in the report are, quote, inaccurate and don’t reflect our current plans, calling it, quote, one of many initiatives we regularly evaluate that could change significantly and said delivery stations are, quote, designed to complement and empower our workforce. End quote. Ken, Amazon already has more than a million robots on the floor throughout the world. Is full automation of the last mile inevitable at this point? And what does quote, design to complement the workforce really mean?
00:50:53 Ken
Yeah, I think you could say, you know, for me, it’s sort of Amazon robots equals yes. Right. So whether they, whether they get there tomorrow or it takes them a few years, I do think they’ll figure. They’ll figure it out. So a few things. One is obviously the track record of innovation and automation that they’ve shown through the incredible warehouses you always see spotlighted every holiday season. The flow of goods and the increasing use of robotics. They actually have the scale, they have the CapEx budget, and they have the sort of history and experience of innovation to make it work. Number two, they’re just so ruthless at attacking every inefficient stage of the, you know, the operations flow and the goods flow. And so it’s not a big stretch to me to say, okay, they maybe with some partners are going to figure out how to automate that last little bit into the truck and the handling. They may have to make some changes in terms of box configuration, packaging, et cetera, to make it machine actionable, but I have no doubt about that. And then thirdly, we were talking about AI, but if you also follow global robotics and the innovations there, they’re almost on the same evolutionary trend, it seems sometimes. And so it’s not a stretch for me at all to think that, you know, that the robotic capabilities will be meaningfully increased over the next three, four or five years. So I think we’d be surprised about how fast this one moves, actually.
00:52:12 Chris
Yeah, right. I mean, I’m kind of like, of course they’re doing this. Of course. I mean, who isn’t theorising this and wanting to do this? So my question to you, Michael, is why don’t you just come out and own that you’re doing it? Like, why, why are you worried about the PR blowback here?
00:52:25 Michael
You know, it’s, it’s quite interesting. I think if you talk about drones specifically, there has been some PR challenges in, in regards to, you know, drones operating in areas they shouldn’t and also being slightly less controllable. So I don’t really understand why, why they’re being so tentative about the PR of it, because you would expect them actually to be way ahead of this subject and really to be a leader in it. So not really sure. That’s definitely a question mark, but that question mark leads me to think they don’t have it figured out yet. And I do agree. I think they will figure it out and if anybody’s going to be successful in it, they will be. But I think this is something where the future is kind of too far away for them. So they’re trying to make sure that people know that they’re looking and playing in the future, but it feels like they maybe are having a much tougher time figuring it out.
00:53:25 Chris
Got it. Yeah, that could be that. It’s just like. It’s just literally an internal document right now. It’s an internal project that’s at the stage of trying to figure things out. Ken, back to you.
00:53:33 Ken
Yeah, well, and just to that point, I read it as a little bit maybe of just internal caginess too. I mean, there’s such a large operation right now and they’ve got to think, you know, the workforce size of employee base and they’ve got to be a little bit sensitive to labour issues and so forth. So I read a little bit of that in it as well. They don’t want to reveal their plans proactively. There wouldn’t be any benefit.
00:53:55 Chris
Yeah, everyone’s so scared of anything related to personal impacts on robotics and AI right now, too. I think it’s just kind of the landscape. But, Ben, close us out here for today’s show before we get to the Lightning Round.
00:54:06 Ben
Oh, I completely agree. I mean, complete agreement with everything that everyone’s just said. And I think when. When they say designed to complement the workforce, they’re literally saying that these are not the droids you’re looking for. Move along.
00:54:19 Michael
Exactly right.
00:54:20 Chris
Right. It is. That’s a great way to end it. Great way to end it. Always can end on a Star wars reference. All right, let’s go to the Lightning Round. Today’s Lightning Round is brought to you with the help and support of RNS Logistics. Are you looking for a fulfilment and distribution partner that’s just right? Well, RNS Logistics is small enough to provide custom solutions and that personal touch, while also boasting 2 million square feet across 10 locations in the Southeast. With technology that can scale your growing E commerce operations, visit rswarehousingsolutions.com all right, Ken, with Aaron Donald reportedly coming out of retirement to play for the Rams once again, who is your super bowl pick for this year?
00:54:59 Ken
Well, it won’t be any surprise as A Minnesota sports fan. I have to do the most Minnesota thing and both pick something that is completely not going to happen and useless and a waste of time and also pick the Vikings. So my, my hot take, which would probably be worth about 2,000 to 1 if I went on Kalshi right now, is Kyler Murray will turn into the franchise leading quarterback we’ve been searching for for 10 years. And it’s Vikings all the way. You heard it here first.
00:55:28 Chris
Oh, my God.
00:55:30 Ben
Okay, look, question number two. We’re going to go from pure fiction to more fiction. Actor Rob Lowe. And this is for you, Michael. He recently said that his favourite sweet indulgence is chocolate cream pie. What is your favourite type of pie?
00:55:47 Michael
Oh, I would. It’s not necessarily pie, but it’s tiramisu. So I’m just going to throw that in there.
00:55:55 Chris
Pie realm. In the pie realm. All right, Michael, back to you again. Tom Cruise and Anne Hathway are on board for a Days of Thunder sequel set to premiere in June 28th. What excites you most about the return of Cole Trickle?
00:56:08 Michael
I love it. Absolutely love Tom Cruise. Huge fan and great to see him back. A little controversial with Anne Hathaway and there’s a lot on TikTok. There’s a lot of chatter about that of like, why not bring Nicole Kidman back? So, bit of a question mark. I’m a. I’m a halfway fan of Anne Hathaway. Sometimes lovers, sometimes not so much. So it’ll be very interesting too, because I, I thought that Nicole Kidman was perfectly cast for the role that she played, so would have been great to see her back. But Tom Cruise is amazing, super professional, and I think it’s an exciting sequel and the, you know, the F1 movie with Brad Pitt that Jerry Bruckheimer did. I don’t know if you guys have ever seen it. They did the side by side with Days of thunder and F1, and there’s like 15 scenes that are exactly the same. So he’s got a formula. My only recommendation is don’t wait to see it at home. Got to go in the theatre, grab the popcorn, grab the soda, just sit back and, you know, waste two and a half hours watching it and you’ll love it.
00:57:15 Ben
Love that. Question number four, and I’m going to throw this one to you, Ken, and hopefully we’re going to talk about a relationship that’s going to end better than Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman did. So Ava Mendez showed off her tattoo, which reads degosling seemingly in a Tribute to partner Ryan Gosling on Instagram on August 28, saying, it’s the only one I have, the only one I ever wanted. Ken, if you were to get or maybe have a tattoo in appreciation of your significant other, what would it say?
00:57:50 Ken
Yeah. So, first of all, no tattoos on me. So I’m. I’m being distinctive by having zero. I’m going to be the last person, person on earth, I think, that has none. But if I got some, I’d get. My wife’s a nurse and she was an ER nurse for more than 20 years and she wanted to be that from when she was young. So when she was five years old, she talked about being the tap dancing nurse and her father made her kind of a thing with a nurse’s hat and some tab dancing shoes. So that would be. The tattoo would be like the old nurse’s hat with a little pair of red tap shoes in honour of Hillary.
00:58:19 Chris
Wow. You’re gonna have to play this short for your.
00:58:22 Rocquan
For. For.
00:58:23 Chris
For her when you get. When it comes out. That’s a great. That’s a great.
00:58:27 Michael
Yeah.
00:58:27 Chris
All right, well, I’m interested in time. Today’s podcast was produced with the help and support of Ella Sirjord. And happy birthday today to Keanu Reeves, Mark Harmon and to the woman where I will always remember where I was the first time I saw her on screen. The Tempe Town Lakes Theatre, the Great Salma Hayek. And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, make it Omnitok. Our Fast Five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week’s top news and our daily newsletter, the Retail Daily Minute, tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us and that we take a tonne of pride in doing just for you. Thanks as always for listening in. Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube. You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalk retail. Michael, if people want to get in touch with you, you can. Anyone at the A and M consumer and Retail group, what’s the best way for them to do that?
00:59:24 Michael
Easiest way is to track us down through our website, which is http://www.alvarez and marcel-crg.com.
00:59:33 Chris
Nice. I’ve never heard anyone say www. I like that. I like that. And Ben, what’s the best way for people to get in touch with you and to learn more about grocer talk.
00:59:42 Ben
Yeah, Best way is always on LinkedIn. So on Ben Miller rec retail at LinkedIn and you can find everything. Just drop me a note there. Awesome.
00:59:49 Chris
Well, great show today. That was one of my faves for the year, without a doubt. Lots of great conversations, lots of great debate back and forth, especially at the early part of the show. So on behalf of Ken, Michael, Ben and myself, producer Ella and all of us here at Omnitok Retail, as always, be careful out there.
Omni Talk® is the retail blog for retailers, written by retailers. Chris Walton founded Omni Talk® in 2017 and have quickly turned it into one of the fastest growing blogs in retail.