Hello, you are listening to the OMNI talk Fast Five brought to you in partnership with Microsoft, The A&M consumer and retail group, Takeoff and Sezzle. The Omni talk Fast Five podcast is the podcast that we hope make you feel a little smarter. But most importantly, a little happier each week too. And especially for all of our listeners over in Europe, either in Ukraine or who have team members in Ukraine. This show is for you.
Yes, it is.
Today is March 3. I am your host Anne Mezzenga
And I’m Chris Walton.
And we are here to once again discuss all the top headlines making waves in the world of omni channel retailing Chris, it feels good. It feels really good to be back
It does Anne, and I have to introduce our newest mascot which for those of you that listened to the show last week we went out and procured build a bear, what is it build the bears after dark?
After dark series
Yeah, after dark shoes a bear from the Build A Bear after dark series which shout out to Chad lusk on the show last week who picked the bear that we were going to procure and that is our new mascot cosy as fluff and say hi, say hello to cosy
Hi that’s really creepy. This is turning a bear cord man I can making
That’s actually a dog’s bark. Yeah, well, I don’t know what sound does a bear make, rawrrr, like this rowrrr, like grizzly bears in Yellowstone
I hope to never find out
Which is so good by the way you listen is so good.
You are crushing Yellowstone right now.
It’s like so it’s like so kind of like gratuitous though too. But anyway, we won’t we won’t get off on that subject but cosy. It’s good to have you cosy is fluff for those watching on TV
Did you call him calf.
Calf. Yeah, calf. Why not? Here he is. See? Hey.
Oh my god.
All right, we’re done with props. We’re not prop comics. Yeah, we’re not Carrot Top.
Yeah, we’re just gonna set up set set cosy down into
Sat cosy down back into space.
No one would take this serious affair between
But I have to give you some. I don’t know if this is props are actually kind of derision that I’m about to lay your way. But you were in Mardi Gras last week. And you’re wearing purple again today.
I am still sporting Mardi Gras. I got my rolling dirty since 1917 hat that I caught from a floats like definitely one of those. It says it’s 1970s 1970 Oh, yeah,
I’d love to see that on someone that’s like that old too, though. I thought sure. I’m sure there were people that were doing that. But I gotta give you I gotta at least give you a shout out here. You’re working. You like work while you were in Mardi Gras. You like went to Walmart and did a video demo of their skin and go like what inspired that and who was behind the video? By the way,
Shout out to my photographer John Mazinga who
Oh your brother
Who wanted nothing more avid OMNI talk listener wanted nothing more than to punch me directly in the face. And I was like, Hey, can you just video me doing scanning? Oh, this is cool. I want to try it in the middle of like
Yeah. Definite nerd alert. He already knew that. But like I’m telling you, this is like the Walmart that’s in like Central New Orleans. There’s parade like rites being done all around us. There’s a tonne of people in the store and tape scanning these Mardi Gras shirts and like tumblers we’re making drinks in later.
But it was really I have to say like that experience was slick like super fast scanning. The only issue Chris
Yeah, yeah, tell the audience
We got done. We scan everything got our cart ready. All we need to do is scan the QR code and go except scan and go Isn’t the same line as what they call scan and go self checkout or Walmart. So we still had to wait in a line even though like I mean we didn’t have to scan every single item but yeah, so it’s still some room for improvement there but man that store shout out to the chipotle New Orleans Walmart they had stuff running right that
Yeah, so basically what you’re saying is so if you’re faster than Dolores at the checkout lane scanning the items it’s worth it otherwise it’s kind of it doesn’t really do much for you. But I’m damn proud of you for doing that kind of embarrassed that you did it today. damn proud of Brett damn proud to call you a partner.
For taking the time to do that and putting your younger your younger brother right through.
Through that as well. So that’s awesome. All right Anne, I think we got to get to the headlines
Let’s do it.
So today we’re going to talk about Amazon taking it’s just walk out technology to Whole Foods. footlocker shares dropping on the latest news around Nike. Kroger expanding into another market virtually. DoorDash somehow listing target with it in app. We’re gonna close with that. But first we take we take off with another target related announcement and
Oh, Chris, I am excited. Parents across the country let out a collective scream of joy this week. Do you know why?
I think I do Anne
Target released a press release announcing that customers can now order Starbucks and handle returns without ever getting out of their cars as part of Target’s curbside drive up service.
Yes, they did. Although there’s some nuance to this, which I definitely want to get into
Yes, there is. So Target said it will begin testing the option for guests in select markets to add a Starbucks order or make a return within targets free contactless curbside service through the target app. A company spokeswoman also told CNBC that target will begin testing the concept with employees then with customers in the hopes to scale these features across
That is a key nuance to me. Begin testing. Yes,
Yes. There’s lots of testing that will have to happen. Now Chris, you mentioned Chad Lusk at a&m. He is going to put you on the spot right here. And now
right off the get go right in the beginning, I get this right in the beginning
With the first one
Oh my god. Sure this is gonna be super easy.
Yes, as always. So here at a&m, like the moms across the country, Chris. Chad says, We think that Target’s announcement is exciting and hugely innovative, and innovate to innovate taste nice. Well, and I feel like it’s a&m so I have to like use proper English
English accent. Yes. Okay, go ahead.
Yes, Jonathan sharp would be very proud
Yes he would,
And that we should expect to see retailers add more benefits to incent curbside pickup over home delivery fulfilment because of the inherently lower cost model.
Yes, that is a benefit.
Right now. This seems to be a game playing out among Amazon, Walmart and Target. But how do you think that non mass merchandisers can drive more pickup as well, in the long term?
Whoa, okay, curveball. I didn’t expect to go there. All right. Well, I’ve got geez, okay, there’s a lot I want to say on the topic of just Target’s announcement in general. Like I said, there’s a lot of nuance to what I think they’re putting out there.
And then also, in terms of what a&m is asking, inherently, in that question, in terms of what it means, you know, for other retailers, given that it’s a put you on the spot question first, I’ll tackle that and then come, I’ll try to come back and circle back as quickly as I can to kind of my thoughts on target and their announcement in answering the a&m question. You know, to me, my, my advice would be, you know, for the listeners would be to break that down into the two groups. So I would break it out in off mall and mall based.
And for the for the off mall world, like, you know, so that for people to me, that’s like the autos the world Home Depot’s Kohl’s, Burlington, you know, excetera. To me, there’s no reason why they can’t and shouldn’t be aspiring to offer the same type of curbside pickup services, you know, for the reasons they’re saying it’s a better way to do it economically.
And in fact, I would say and target for all the fanfare gets, they kind of serendipitously fell into this whole service. Like because I was there at the time when this was very hotly hotly debated. And there were the whether or not they should not current announcement just to pick up side effects, which is the inherent part of an A&M question.
Very highly debated. And, and I can remember and you know who you are, if you’re listening, there were quite a few people that were Pooh poohing them even trying this. And there were literally knockdown drag out fights internally, but they did it. And then along comes a pandemic. And they look like heroes because they are two to three years out in front of the experimentation and, and that matters. And what it all starts with.
So getting back to the question, but it all starts with this fundamentally, you have to, you have to have what I call great Available to Promise logic. So I’m gonna use a Joey Tribbiani air quotes here, because it’s a very important thing Available to Promise logic, in your order management systems is what allows you as a retailer to constantly be able to serve up the inventory for the customers across all these different fulfilment types. If you don’t have that, you’re not going anywhere.
And then you also have to have the inventory accuracy, which RFID plays into and all that. So that’s fundamentally where you have to start. And then like Target, like I said, you have to spend two years developing the front end processes UX to make this happen,
Which part, right.
But now back to the mall base side of it,
You have to do all those things. But then you’re saddled within a mall.
So how do you make this experience happen? For my money, the only way you’re going to do it is by doing something like a debt mindset with Mall of America where
Like collaborative effort Yeah, single pickup points within the mall.
Yeah, it’s only way it’s going to work for the customer. Right. But but then but my problem with that is I don’t think that the mall in the mall based retailers particularly have the leadership or the innovative thinking to do this. And my point that I would use to drive that home is like Macy’s, Macy’s for all the fanfare it’s been getting of late, like, why isn’t Jeff Kinette out there saying like, we’re going to lead the charge on this idea for every mall in America in which we operate. I mean, there’s like something like, you know, there’s a tonne of Macy’s stores, where they could be just taking up the torch on this idea.
Seems like a better use of space than story toys. Wessels pretzels. Like, why don’t you? Yeah, that’s a great point.
Why? Why aren’t you just like pulling together all the mall retailers have a conference in New York at your headquarters, bring all the executives into the room and be like, we are doing this.
So anyway, that’s my long story short, I don’t know if you have any thoughts. You want to weigh in on that. But I got to talk to the target angles too.
Yeah, I think that’s so smart. Like, I would never have thought of that. But that would be a great reason for people to go into Macy’s. Like if you’re the central location, you’re the biggest place you have the biggest parking lots like for people to be able to utilise your store is kind of the hub for the mall. That’s brilliant and goes back to you know what David Brown was saying last week of like, how do you get everything done that you need to do in the mall? And without leaving Macy’s?
Why does Simon need to lead this? Or, you know, whomever else, you know, you want to put in jail, like, why do they need to lead us? Why can’t Why can’t Macy’s be the leader on this? But but you know, going back to going back to what I want to talk about with target, I mean, I think I’m, I’m not as gung ho on this announcement, as I think you are. And I want to see what you have to say. Yeah. I think first of all, I love the idea, the idea of being able to get my Starbucks curbside situation
I posted on LinkedIn, this is like my dream come true. So I’m, I’m holding target. I’m like, this has to happen. Now you set it, you put it out into the universe, and now my knee and 1000s and hundreds of 1000s of people are expecting
100%. And I told I told the start to start up and asked me for a quote on this. I said, it’s a freaking game changer. Yeah. And she dropped that quote, exactly. I was like, it’s so cool in its intent. But I think I’m a little bit like, okay, hold on a second here. Because I think there’s a little bit of taking PR credit for the idea before it’s actually instituted, which honestly, bothers me a little bit. You know, I hate when I hate when companies do that.
Because I think making this work is pretty hard logistically. You know, if you look at Starbucks, you’ve got an order, when it’s an order that can’t be staged, because it needs to be hot, right? And then people are really particular about what it is that they how they order their coffee.
so there’s a different dynamic here than, say, the standard curbside pickup order, where you’re getting a frozen pizza from DiGiorno, that you kind of know what that’s gonna look like, right? Or yeah, or some other like Crest toothpaste, right?
Like you can’t screw that up if you are target. And then you get into returns like that getting inherently complex, you start bringing back online return items as well. Like, I can remember being a door manager, like somebody brought back a mattress they brought online, yeah, imagine if somebody brings a couch
right which they are definitely going to if they have to pull up the car and don’t have to haul it
100% They are. And so that’s going to screw up with these processes to a large degree. And it’s going to take a long time to figure this out. So while they’re claiming this, I think this is going to not roll out nationally. It would be my hunch that quickly.
But I think there’s actually a cooler pivot on this, which I want to I don’t want to wait on a tease that, so I want to get your thoughts on it. Do you agree with me?
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think I think that the the biggest challenge for target to roll this out is actually going to be the the staffing and handling the returns part of it, because even with the most, you know, forward thinking like early adopter customers, you’re still going to have an issue with some of the returns, and how long I think the staff applied to those returns, it’s going to take like, there’s going to be more of a process and that will be the biggest hurdle to get over.
I tend to disagree with you about the like the Starbucks and that kind of availability, like both Starbucks mobile order pickup, and targets curbside pickup are best in class examples. They get thrown out everywhere. They do that very well. And so I think that that’s just a matter of working out the right back end, you know, like timing, when do we fire the Starbucks order. And, you know, people are used to, ideally getting your coffee right away when you pull up, but they understand that there could be some lag time that happens within Starbucks.
Yeah that’s true, that’s a good point.
So I’m not as worried
So maybe that’s just more slack in the system. I hadn’t thought about
Yes, I think that there are both those logistical hurdles can definitely be overcome. Now, to quickly answer a&m question, I think that you know, the biggest thing to the biggest advantage I guess for non targets, Walmart’s, Amazon’s is returns, accepting returns without having to get out of the car and doing curbside returns, especially in the world of online commerce that we live in. I think that is the biggest thing that I would focus on. However, you actually
You know what not everyone can duplicate Starbucks, right? Especially the return part
Okay, but I want to hear what your like tease is what were you thinking?
So you know, it coincidentally Target also announced this week, they’re investing $5 billion, again, you know, and part of that is in, store remodelling things. Now, my hunch is that this is nowhere on their roadmap. But what I would be doing is taking a portion of that money and experimenting with creating a drive thru lane for Starbucks. That is coordinated with the architecture of the store
to simplify this, and I would also possibly even look at a walk up pickup window into where, you know, to the Starbucks part.
It sounds like I’ve heard of that before.
Yeah, that’s the type of thing I mean, we’ve talked about that for years.
Yeah, what, Kroger is doing it there Cincinnati store where you have the Starbucks pickup window, right? And
that’s the type of stuff that I would want to see here.
And I would love to see them take that that step because I think that simplifies it and I think customers would just be just as interested in using that service. And it would simplify the operations potentially greatly. So So anyway, that’s my thoughts and I don’t know closing word on this.
I would I think that’s definitely worth experimentation. I don’t know that I think they need to drive up Starbucks and I like I would like it all in one. If they can figure that out.
You would I think ideally you think this is ideally better yeah which I think I think that’s true too but I think
there’s and maybe they can like make dinner and then deliver that too
yeah right that yes, yes they can.
And my dry cleaning just basically target brings a
So a floor wax and a desert topping. Alright let’s move on to headline two we took some time on that first one intentionally because it was kind of a big story this week. But and this one is huge to Amazon has opened up a new Whole Foods in DC that leverages its Amazon ghost style just walk out technology according to change storage the store is roughly 21,000 square feet and can be found in the clover Glover Park, excuse me, Clover. neighbourhood of DC that was my Grover impression you know from from Sesame Street.
According to Amazon, it has also expanded the computer vision algorithms of is just walk out tech to support all the stores selection, including self service stations, where customers my favourite customers can serve up things like fresh squeezed orange juice and mochi ice cream. And, I fought hard for this story
You did You sure fought hard for this.
To make the headlines, but after a night’s sleep, I’m curious 24 hours of sitting on it. Where’s your head on it? Are you coming around to it’s importance in the world of omni channel retailing?
Chris, I rarely I try to say this to you as as little as I possibly can. But this is right. And this is a bigger story than I think yesterday I was willing to give it credit for.
I have some I have some caveats, though. I think you should start here and explain why you think that this is really true. And then I will explain my counterpoint.
Okay. Well, I like it. I think this story
This is like one of those apologies where I’m like, I’m sorry, but
Yeah, right. Yeah, I’m sorry. But yeah, right. But I’m not really sorry. All right. Well, Anne I think this story is big. And the reason I think it’s big, as I call it, what I would call this or I would, I would love this a non retrofit retrofit.
We’ve talked about the importance of retrofitting this technology into stores, into existing stores. This is not that, but it is kind of that and that it’s retrofitting it into an existing brand. This is the first example I can think of where Amazon has taken a technology and applied it to an existing brand, something that already is out there. I’ve said on this podcast, I’ve said on countless other podcasts in which I’ve been interviewed, the biggest advantage Amazon has is that none of us have a preconceived notion of what its consumer experiences should look like.
That’s true of Amazon, true for Amazon Fresh, go grocery, whatever you want to call it. That is not true of Whole Foods. We all have an expectation of what a wholefoods experience should be. And so you’re walking a different tight wire here, or tightrope here. And the fact that they’re doing this then is huge, it is big. And so that is something that I think people have to take notice. There’s no stopping this freight train at all. They just announced today they’re shutting down all the other physical stores.
I know it’s crazy
to focus on this, which goes back to our hypothesis all along that those stores were never meant to be anything to begin with.
You mean you’re not going to have you don’t want for stores and malls. You what you might want a convenience store a fashion concept.
Right, right. You just Yeah. I mean, they were proving grounds for the tech. Right. They were proving grounds for the computer vision tech and what and how people shopped and understanding that and returns and all that kind of stuff. So you know, Target, Walmart, Kroger, you guys got to wake up here.
That’s my thing. Big Aha, I had this week to I got the chance to interview choice choices. Choice market CEO Mike Fogarty. Yeah, for GvtC, which is coming up in a couple of weeks. You guys, you guys should check it out. He basically said like, there is so many scale benefits to this. If you think about understanding this technology, like he’s gone from convenience stores to now putting it in hospitals, like Walmart, Target, why don’t you just experimenting with this in like, smaller format to see what happens? Like, why couldn’t you have a target inside hospitals?
Right? I’m hopeful that that $5 billion in stores that Target’s putting towards like that that’s going into some of this experimentation. And if it’s not, I will be shocked. I mean, that is
Oh will you, I won’t be at all. I don’t know. I don’t think there’s a damn cent that will go to this. But anyway,
I know, you’re probably right,
but I don’t but what do you think I mean, so do you agree with that
I don’t agree with you that this is going to be the shock to people systems that you make it out to be. You and the New York Times reporter who claimed that the experience was already divisive among customers. I was like, Okay,
I don’t think it’s gonna be divisive. That’s Oh, that’s a that’s what she was saying.
That’s the New York Times reporter was saying she’s he or she I can’t remember
It’s bold experiment. People could perceive it that way.
Yeah, well, yes. But I think that you are you are forgetting that Amazon has been a presence in Whole Foods since they took over in 2018. I mean, prime discount scans and been happening at checkouts at that time signings throughout the store returns in store pickup lockers, so I don’t think this is the this to me for the whole foods customer.
This is just going to be the next iteration like this is just Amazon further extending the experience in store. I don’t think this is his I don’t think you can say the same where it’s like this is Amazon doing something that nobody’s ever expected in the store that it’s a completely new experience because Amazon’s footprint has been in there I think there’s gonna be a bigger shock when we see like tree Go and wait for and coming together and creating an entirely new experience for a Wakefern shopper that will be better but I mean I think that’s where you’re going to see more of a new experience for people or if you put this in a safe way then he will in a Whole Foods
that’s interesting yeah I mean the the part with wait for it depends cuz like you scale it down depending to but this is like a full scale Amazon Go so but your points right like you’re at you’ve acclimated The Whole Foods customer to being owned by Amazon for a while.
And it is still a new store, which helps get you past that gap. So yeah, I think that’s, that’s a great point you’re bringing up.
Okay, well, let’s go to headline number three, Chris. So footlocker projected a big revenue drop in 2022 This past week, saying that it will no longer sell no longer likely sell as many Nike products as it has in years past. So according to NBC shares slipped 30% This past Friday, as footlocker said the news reflects the accelerated shift by Nike to sell more of its sneakers and apparel directly to consumers. Chris, what are your thoughts about this?
Yeah, this one, I think you’re not going to debate this one too, actually. Which is good, because I like when that happens. I kind of wonder if this isn’t a bit of an overreaction as well. You know, we talked on the show a lot of times that, you know, the right answer is always balanced. And so I think it’s funny that, you know, news comes out this week, too, that Allbirds is, you know, talking about building out wholesale relationships with, you know, what was it six months ago?
I don’t know exactly how many months but they were talking about, you know, they were saying they need to raise money because they need to build stores, they need to be more directly related to their customer. Now they’re looking at wholesale relationships. So I feel like this, this whole wholesale versus direct thing is going to filter out. It feels like Nike should be a part of the footlocker experience to me to some degree, but I don’t know maybe I’m thinking about this with my 1989 Air Force ones nostalgia here Anne, I’m going to the mall, so I you know, prove me wrong here. Like what’s your take here?
No, I mean, this is bad news for footlocker
Oh, really? okay.
I mean, it actually reminds me of what happened to Macy’s long ago when like the big brands started pulling out a Macy’s. You’re not getting the as you like quoted multiple times on the show, like La krusei is not selling their products in Macy’s anymore. It’s Martha Stewart Living brand or like the Macy’s own brand. And there’s not there’s not enough like allure to go to the Macy’s anymore because Nike in this case. You know, Nike is a reason for people to go to a footlocker Nike sales made up 70% of footlocker sales last year,
It doesn’t surprise me at all.
It’s huge. So there is you know, this is going to be a huge impact on footlocker but my my argument from Nikes perspective is just because and I agree with you, wholesale is a component of your business, it should be a component of your business. That doesn’t mean you got to go wholesale with everybody. Okay, you got to focus your your efforts on this. I think that, you know, when you look at stores, you have nearly as many Dick’s Sporting Goods who they’re going and heavy with, as there are footlocker so it’s not like you’re giving up the option for somebody to go to a mall to try them on
… too when you think about the full store …
And the experience is better. Plus, they’re tying in your loyalty programme. So I think that’s a huge part of it. And buying direct from Nike is just a better experience. Now. I mean, when was the last time you were at a footlocker and trying to find Nikes like they have limited selection. They don’t always have the sizes that you need. And you are able to get better prices, better assortment, and you have a great return policy with Nike, you know, free returns and shipping. Like it’s just the experience is ultimately better going to Nike or going to a Dick’s Sporting,
And you’re a mom in this headspace right now, because your kid is definitely in this age. Yeah. You know. And so I think you’ve got me actually, I mean, I think you’ve got me reversing course on this pretty hard. Like, I think this is actually the canary in the coal mine because the other point that was raised in these articles in the statement, so footlocker put out is that they’re not going to invest in their own brands. And I’m like, what, what footlocker own brands are going to use to compete in this space, which, you know, as we’ve talked about 1000 times, is 100%, the harbinger of more bad news to come,
Right? Yep. No, I
We don’t even need to hopefully for the loyalists. We don’t need to retread on why that is but like be alarmed by that part of this announcement. So yeah, and I think when you when I listened when I put that against what you just said, Yeah, this might just be the beginning of further troubles. All right, let’s do headline number four. Kroger is expanding into Oklahoma similar to how it did in Florida last year, without stores This is so exciting.
This is like your favourite topic of all time.
It is. It’s so cool. And according to the Dallas Morning News, Kroger will offer online grocery shopping from its new automated facility in Dallas, which he built in partnership with Ocado, and will also coordinate deliveries with what is calling a 50,000 square foot, quote unquote, spoke facility. In Oklahoma City. The Oklahoma spoke facility is said to deliver within a 200 mile radius and is expected to employ up to 191 full time employees. I yeah, I love this. You can tell by my voice but what do you think?
Yeah, this was actually one that I fought for before the Whole Foods just walk out technology when we were coming into the Fastpass,
it’s like, shoutout to you.
Yesterday, but this is the this spoke facility can deliver within a 200 mile radius like that is a lot. When you think about like, we’ve been focusing so much on micro fulfilment, and like these fulfilment centres delivering into like 5-10 mile radius, I’m just an average person. But to me that is like, shocking, like that is crazy. And so I think that this was when I would read this was made very apparent to me that the coverage capability that they have for this model is significant enough that they can start now in a new market to make a pretty big impact on grocery and being a preferred grocery provider, especially whatever pricing they’re going to be able to offer because they don’t have to operate a store.
And I think a lot of people gave them so much crap early on, like when Okada was coming when they you know, merge with Ocado, they were people were saying like you can’t do what you did in the UK, Okado where you have these dense urban settings, but now they’re delivering to a 200 mile radius, Chris, and that’s just one of the spokes
Right, right, right. Yeah. And I’m not a math major, but a radius is half the length of a circle, right? Is that Is that what is right? Yeah, . Okay, good. Okay. It’s different than circumference, which is the full length, right? Okay. Just making sure I just want to make sure I had that that right. Because I think that’s a critical piece of information here. But I digress anyway, and I 100% agree. Like, this story is not covered enough. In my opinion guy. I searched it actually, I searched it.
And there was only one other mention of it last week outside of Dallas, more news. And it was of course, the great people at grocery divergent an awesome job. No one else picked it up. This is the largest grocer in the country entering a second market now virtually maybe a third if you include New York, the announcement they made last year too. But that tells me two things. Okay. One it tells me that they are liking what they’re seeing in Florida. Or they’re not liking what they’re seeing in Florida. And this is the next attempt to try to see if it’s this idea still work? But either way we’re going to have an answer to that question in a few months or few years when they decide to either enter another market or not enter another market.
but this is telling this is
my guess was a few months an eye on Yeah, my guess is we’re gonna hear another one in a few months with the speed that they’ve been rolling this out is fierce.
Yeah, my hunch is it’s working. But if you’re listening Kroger if you know anything, let us know because we’d love to talk about it on on succeeding shows here as we go along. But alright, and let’s finish the show up
Speaking on grocery dive. Jeff Wells and team broke the news this week that targets assortment is currently available via the DoorDash app in cities like Cleveland, Atlanta, Louisville, Kentucky, Charlotte, North Carolina and Seattle. Which is odd, Chris because a target spokesperson told Jeff and team at grocery dive that target exclusively partners with shipped to offer same day delivery of online orders to millions of guests across the country. We do not they said have a business relationship with DoorDash.
So what we have here is clearly the case of what some are calling ninja shopping, whereby the third party delivery marketplaces are listing products of retailers without the retailer’s knowledge of practice. DoorDash also acknowledged grocery dive, which is exactly what they are doing.
That was my favourite part of the article. Like they were so brazen about this. They’re like, yeah, that’s That’s totally what we’re doing.
Yeah, yeah. I talked to Jeff about this article.
You recorded it.
Yeah. And, you know, he was saying he’s like, Instacart did this a couple years ago to like, this is not a new thing. But what do you think about this, Chris? Like, I got to hear your perspective.
Yeah. And we must spend some time on this one, because I think there’s a lot of nuance to this conversation, too. But I fundamentally, when I hear about this stuff, it irks the Hell
yeah, I’m picturing you like getting the call when you’re an executive at Target. And they’re like, Guess what, Mr. Chris? They’re selling our stuff on DoorDash.
Yeah, it would piss me off. Yeah, I have a real problem with it, because you’re syphoning off value that I give to the marketplace by scraping my inventory off my website or my my product information off your website, and that just feels kind of inherently wrong to me.
But admittedly, and I don’t know where to draw the line on this, like I was thinking about, okay, like, where am I okay with scraping internet, right? I was like, Okay, there’s pricing services that scrape you know, your pricing relative to your one retailer to the other and the retailer’s pay for it. I’m like, okay, I’m okay with that.
I mean, customers are scraping the internet looking for pricing. Okay, okay.
Well, actually, actually, I take that back. Why don’t Okay, so, so like, I kind of impede by this, but, tell me why I’m wrong. Because I think I think I know where you’re going. But I think there’s nuance to that too. So yeah keep going,
okay. This is mostly mostly grocery. But what I’m going
But it couldn’t do be done
It could be done anywhere. But specifically in these examples. It’s mostly grocery items. But I think that you have a hard time being like the authorised seller of celery like how can target be like this Like, this is the kind of stuff they’re getting their grocery products. There’s nothing ninja about this Chris.
Nothing ninja about it, it’s a stupid name 100%
Everybody knows what’s going on here. Retailers are just getting upset now that the convenience market has been democratised. This what this has been going on for years, people have had personal assistants that have been doing this, your home designers are reselling products for you and charging an upcharge for going and picking it out for you like this has been going on. And it’s people were doing the same damn thing.
They just weren’t using technology to do it. And nobody was up in arms, because the retailers were still getting the sales. So I think that, you know, there this is not for me. I mean, I don’t know, oh, I don’t see
You don’t have a problem with this at all. You’re like You’re like scrape away, scrape away, and especially because they’re going into other businesses too like, you know, Instacart and DoorDash have relationships with every other retailer now with this. Right? Right, right. Like you could, in theory have this happening anywhere. Any brand, right? Your personal assistant argument kind of makes sense. Like, okay, you’re just facilitating that at a greater scale. But at the end of the day, though, there’s a difference in the first party data relationship. In that situation, like, your relationship with your it’s one to one, right?
Like, it’s, it’s not being assumed by this marketplace that then creates all those first first party relationships outside of the retailer, what the retailer like the personal assistant like that assist, that assistant is still going to that retailer on behalf of that person, which is a more direct connection here as well, that I think is I think it’s just inherently different.
But I guess I don’t understand that. Because if you’re gonna have Instacart, or shipped, or anybody, like facilitate, I mean, shift is different. Because I that’s a hard one to like use for this example. But I think if you’re gonna use Instacart, which, you know, lots of retailers are using or DoorDash, or GrubHub, or whoever you are, you’re already like losing that personal relationship. But like, what’s the bigger risk here, I guess is what’s more important, but your nails,
but you’re saying the retailer’s choosing not to use them in this case? And so then that for that, then if they’re scraping it, they’re getting that relationship that the other wouldn’t what other otherwise wouldn’t? Yeah. And so that is a difference in data transfer, and understanding your customer and what they want, which is kind of subversive to me in a way. But I don’t know, I don’t know.
I just don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know. I think the the other issue is that, like, if there’s a problem with your order, DoorDash, in this case, is the one that’s hearing about it, not target. So it’s like they are doing something that justifies them having to like get an extra commission off of doing this, I think the target is like, again, what is more important to target sales revenue, or the direct relationship with a customer. And you know, you’re still getting your products in the hands of those customers and the potential of bringing them into a Target store. And maybe they like got a good and gather product through DoorDash that they wouldn’t have received otherwise.
Yeah, I mean,
There’s no harm in this test. Like it’s good. It’s better for everybody, especially for DoorDash. Like, if nothing else, they do this they get they get target to see that there’s an interest in their services.
Yeah, I mean, I think you’re right, I’m not gonna I’m not gonna get on the old man. I think I’m getting off the old man get off my lawn kind of thing here with this, because, in a way, it’s just like a different version of affiliate marketing, you know, in a lot of ways, but you’re just not I mean, and you’re right target if target if they’re doing this in that many cities. Target knows about it like
They for sure know about it.
Why is DoorDash is runner in this store picking products and then checking out like, it’s so forget
That I mean, is there’s like, what is the priority here?
Yeah, so yes, you’re right. I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe I’m too, Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino on this one. All right. Let’s close this show up.
All right. So Chris, lightning round time, according to Retail TouchPoints. headline, beta has ended US operations, but we’ve multiple lessons for other retailers. What would you say one of those lessons might be Chris? Oh, man.
Um, that’s a tough question. First of all, I want to salute all the folks have been like, we’ve had long those guys for a long time. And hey, they entered the arena and they tried to make it work for a long time. I’m actually really sad to see them go. And so my heart goes out to them. Because they they tried to do the battle.
I mean, the lessons for me and if you got a chance to watch the interview we did with their CEO probably two years ago over that I thought was really interesting because I thought you know, if the business model economics matter, in terms of what’s underlying, you know how it’s going to work ultimately and where the pressure points will come from and where they want that’s that’s my big takeaway. All right. And grocery delivery startup WE was just valued at $4.1 billion in its latest round of funding. What is your take,
This is just the beginning for WE huge underserved market, there are still very few Asian Hispanic items available from big box grocers and instant delivery providers. So I think this is just just the very start. I joined Walmart plus by the way, I forgot to tell you
Oh you did
You have to did you scan and go on the store so I used Walmart plus yesterday to make a dish that I like automatically added recipes to and half of the things are not available. You can get them
You have to join Walmart plus you have to pay the subscription fee to use this?
You get a Free Trial but yes you do
That’s crazy my the question for me though with we potentially going as you said it reminds me a little Saturday Live skit is it WE literally and then freakin huge anyway alright because last but all you start out life as well know what I’m talking about Mike Myers alright alright and
it’s my my turn Banana Republic launch baby and Banana Republic athleisure products on their site this week Chris, given your gap pedigree Do you think parents across the country are going to about to break the bananarepublic.com site in order to get their hands on a $200 cashmere baby blankets
What the eff is going on at Gap? Like what why in the hell would you waste any time on this?
I think they’re trying to compete with Zara maybe I don’t know,
why would why would you waste any time on these like home furnishings partnerships with Walmart and all that? Like why what what the hell point does that serve?
I don’t know.
All right Anne this is my this is a good one. This is I’m proud of this question. Pantene and stubs are now being offered in reusable containers in 25 Fred Meijer stores around Portland through Kroger’s new partnership with loop. So my question for you is at home who works himself up into a bigger lather you are Mr. Amir,
For sure Mr. Amir, He showers like three times a day
Really? Okay, so we’re going with showering? All right on that one. All right.
I’m still him. Alright,
Still go with him. All right. Happy Birthday today to Ronan Keating, Herschel Walker and my own slaves of visual Seventh Heaven, Jessica Biel.
Did you know Herschel Walker used to have a show here and like a late night show, you know Herschel Walker Herschel Walker Herschel Walker show
Yeah. Are you serious?
Oh, yes. I think it was on after SNL. Actually. Yeah, I’ll find some clips and send with you. And Jessica Beals from Minnesota to so
Oh my god and Ronan Keating, shout out to the kids that song, The touch of your head. Lets me know when you
Oh my God.
Whatever, Julia Roberts, she grabbed me do that is what movie is that I can’t think of it right now. Alright, anyway, remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business make it OMNI talk. Our fast five podcast is the quickest fastest rundown of all the week’s top news. And our twice weekly newsletter tells you the top five things you need to know each day and also features special content exclusive does and just for you. And if it’s all within the preview pane of your inbox, you can sign up today at http://www.Omni talk.blog. Thanks as always for listening in. Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to our podcasts or on YouTube. And of course as always, Anne be careful out there.
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