Transcript of Fast Five Episode: Amazon Tariffs Drama, Schnucks Bets Big on Smart Carts, and ChatGPT Takes On E-Commerce | Fast Five Video

00:00:11 Anne
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00:02:38 Chris
And I’m Chris Walton.

00:02:40 Anne
And we’re here once again to discuss all the top headlines making waves in the world of Omni channel retailing. And joining us today, Chris, for their regularly scheduled monthly appearance is Alvarez and Marcel, Consumer and retail groups, Jeff Dwyer and Louise Doulasanc. I hope I said that as close as possible. Louise, welcome to you both.

00:03:04 Chris
Give it the old college try, Anne. Give it the old college try.

00:03:07 Anne
I gave it the old college try, took Spanish, not French, but I am doing my very best. And Louise, since this is your first appearance on the show and I absolutely butchered your last name, let’s have you pronounce your last name and give us a little bit of your background.

00:03:23 Luis
Yeah, I’m Louis. And don’t worry, it’s it’s difficult to pronounce even in the in French. So, and, and as you’ve gathered, I’m I’m French and American, but live in New York.

00:03:36 Anne
Amazing.

00:03:37 Luis
I’m a partner at Alvarez and Marcel in the consumer retail group, So very excited to, to be here with you. I I mainly focus my work on consumer raising executives of Fortune 500 companies typically on their transformations. So excited to be here with you this morning.

00:03:59 Anne
Welcome, excellent. And Jeff, let’s let’s go to you next.

00:04:04 Jeff
Hey, good morning. Yeah, So Jeff Dwyer, partner out of the San Francisco office. I actually just celebrated my my 18th year with A&M about a week ago, which is pretty wild to to think about. I specialize mostly in CFO services, transformation services within our our consumer retail platform. So it’s, it’s great to be here again this morning and and excited to be joined with Louise and I won’t even try the last time. Yeah, good to see you.

00:04:31 Chris
Yeah, It’s great to see you again too, Jeff. That’s a great, that’s a, that’s a great intro. I focus on CFO services. I like that a lot.

00:04:37 Jeff
That’s a. That’s a. That’s a pretty.

00:04:39 Chris
Nice way to say that. So and for both of you, we’ve got some really interesting topics that we handpicked knowing that you, particularly Louise, would be on the show today to give us some of your take on the consumer side of things. So, Anna, are we ready to get this show started?

00:04:53 Anne
It’s time, Chris. Let’s do it.

00:04:56 Chris
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00:05:50 Anne
On Oh my God, absolutely. I was so excited about this. I was like this if I if I it were something I could do right now. I’m kind of tempted to just check it out, but I don’t want to start. We I just celebrated my anniversary last week, so I think I’m probably the.

00:06:04 Chris
Options. Just the options.

00:06:06 Anne
Yes, research in the name of research like this sounds like such a cool thing. I wish that I could have been this selective when I was going on dates 10 years ago. So.

00:06:15 Chris
Right, right, right. Yeah. When they reached out, we’re like, yes, please, let’s do this. All right, well, today’s in today’s Fast 5. We’ve got news on Schnucks expanding its caper cart tests, chat, GP, TS integration with Shopify, PepsiCo accelerating its transition to natural ingredients. Schnucks again for the second time in one show what is going on for testing products via local incubator. And Corso CEO Julian Mills also stops by for five insightful minutes on why more and more retailers are investing in intelligence store management tools. But we begin today with big news out of Amazon yesterday, or maybe it was news, I don’t know. And what’s your take on this?

00:06:55 Anne
One, is it news? Is it not news? We were never going to talk about it. It doesn’t matter. We’re still going to talk about it on today’s show. Chris. Headline number one. Amazon said Tuesday it considered displaying import charges on items sold via its site for ultra discount items, but that plan was apparently never approved and never going to happen, as a direct quote from Amazon, according to CNBC, the move would have affected items sold on Amazon’s hall. Their answer to Chinese discount retailer Timu, which offers apparel, HomeGoods and other items priced at $20.00 or less. Amazon weighed adding a separate line item to products on Hull in response to Trump’s removal of the de minimis trade loophole, according to a source familiar with the matter. The consideration apparently was not related to Trump’s 145% tariff on imports from China. Punch Bowl news a first time call out I think on the Fast 5 Chris. If not reported earlier on Tuesday that Amazon would quote soon begin to playing the cost of tariffs alongside the price of each product. Citing a source familiar with the company’s plans. The report drew the ire of the White House, which called Amazon’s reported plans a quote, hostile and political act. Jeff, we’re going to go to you on this hotly debated topic to kick us off here. All the Tuesday craziness notwithstanding, is the idea of Amazon potentially displaying cost of tariffs even good retailing to begin with? The floor is yours.

00:08:35 Jeff
This is a this is a good one. I’m I’m not aligned with you on. Is this even actually really news? If it if it by the time you get to lunchtime, it’s off the front page of the of the press. But this, this is an interesting one. No, it’s not good retailing, but I, I think you’re going to see a number of strategies and, and approaches that are taken by our retailers that are are having to bear not insignificant amount of of cost pressure. That’s, that’s, that’s inbound. You know, obviously we’d love to see Amazon and, and other larger retailers do something different than than what I think is a pretty extreme measure that in my mind needs to protect local brands and, and some of the smaller private label type type companies that are really going to have a hard time weathering the next 6 to 12 months. And, and using that as a, as a transparent pricing to, to have a more honest conversation with your, your customer and demographic and consumer base than than what I think this was with a large retailer potentially making a political move or, or trying to get the extra margin probably the the wrong way for, for them, But it’ll be interesting to see how a lot of, of other mass retailers are, are employing it. I think we’re already seeing the, the, the early cracks of, of pricing increases across certainly the apparel landscape. And it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, with my CFO services background, I can tell you it’s a mess out there right now.

00:10:00 Anne
Right, right. Well, and Chris, you, I know, you know, when we, when this question gets posed, is this good retailing? What would you have done in this scenario if you were Amazon or even as a as someone listening who’s trying to think about like, is this a viable option?

00:10:14 Chris
Yeah, I know. I, like, I thought Jeff said it well. Like, I don’t even think this story is really news. I mean, we’re reporting on conversations I think that are happening inside Amazon in terms of what to do. That’s what we’re doing. I don’t believe this thing would have ever seen the light of day like.

00:10:27 Anne
This.

00:10:27 Chris
Concept because yeah, it’s just, it’s bad merchandising. In my experience as a merchant, you never give people a reason not to buy something. Like you’re busy telling people, why don’t you go comparison shop for this while you’re on my site because you’re seeing the tariff surcharge here. So. So I just don’t see it. It doesn’t make sense to me that you would do this. Maybe some other people are thinking about it, but I don’t think Amazon would ever actually put this into practice. So you know, I don’t know. My question really for Jeff is like what what is some of what are some of the things that you’re seeing different retailers do you know, in regards to I’m particularly on the shipment side of things. I’m curious if you have any Intel on that in terms of what you’re seeing different responses to this tariff situation, what that what the responses have been?

00:11:06 Jeff
Yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s a mixed bag. And I, I hate that answer, but the answer that’s the truth. Right now you have a, a number of, of retailers that can either be specific and differentiated in the product they’re bringing in because there’s enough margins to support it and you’re going to have less choice. You’ve probably already heard it in the past two weeks. They’re going to bring the, the products that they can afford to, to pass on or they make enough money to, to make it a mathematical equation that’s acceptable for them. And then in instances where businesses are are unable to, to actually weather the storm, we’ve heard examples of, of companies that have taken imports down to zero and are just waiting to see if there is an alternative option for them to either take inventory down and, and, and try to pass on the price for the inventory that they already have in the door. But it’s, it’s not a one-size-fits-all model. We have a number of of kind of near term, short term mechanisms that a lot of companies are employing. And then reality is, is, is where do you bet right now given how limbo everything is on, on country of origin outside of just obviously everything going on with the 145% tariff on China. But it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit of a wait and see right now. And that’s across everything capital markets, companies trying to figure out where, what they can do in the short term to, to get the price back. And then longer term, what, what do they need to do from a supply chain and operational perspective to to avoid this longer term?

00:12:35 Anne
Yeah, I think that’s really well said. And and Luis, we’ll go to you for the final word on here. But I, I think it’s like, it’s definitely like something that you hear in therapy, like what let’s focus on the things you can control, right? What can you control in this scenario? And I think for retailers, right, it’s like looking at, OK, how do I focus on loyalty? Like the costs are going to go up across the board. Consumers are going to be impacted by these tariffs. So how are you working on using what you have internally even as Amazon to like lever up and down, you know where you might be able to take a hit on some of your margins so that you can provide a lower price point for that consumer for some of these top or for some of these products in addition to that. But Louise, last word here. What, what, what would you add to this big, big topic of tariffs and pricing and, and how the consumer is going to be impacted?

00:13:26 Luis
And as Jeff said, I mean, it’s hitting, you know, the entire economy and if you take it from the consumer companies, I mean, there’s not one company that’s not not hit by it because the supply chains are integrated so global. And a lot of the players had in the 2016 era had moved away from China to other Southeast Asia countries or or Mexico. And now it doesn’t work anymore. They need to to rethink and reshuffle their their supply base and it’s putting a lot of strain on the system and a lot of cost increases. So.

00:14:02 Anne
Right, right.

00:14:04 Chris
Jeff, I’m curious like before we move on to the next headline, I’m curious, maybe you can give me a number here or not, but as you look, as you look to the summer and maybe even into the fall, how much lower will inventories on shelf be in the average retailer across America?

00:14:21 Jeff
How many, how many retailers will be here if there isn’t any movement in in the summertime is probably the more concern I have.

00:14:28 Chris
Wow, OK, it’s.

00:14:30 Jeff
Yeah. There again, I think there’s a number of companies for the first time that are actually excited that they’re they’re long inventory and sitting on 6 to 12 months of of a particular category when that would have obviously been frowned upon just three weeks or 4 weeks ago. So I think you’re going to see inventory levels certainly being impacted for the holiday buys. Did you think about all the seasonal categories that are coming in that you usually land kind of in that September, October time frame? That stuff is going to be on a boat here in 90 days, 60 days. And, and I, I, I, I’m more worried about the impact you’re going to have on the more November, December seasonal type type areas. Then I think you’re going to see worried about what’s on shelf at a Walmart for for the next 60 days.

00:15:23 Chris
Yeah, yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah. And then I started talking about that for the first time last week, too, that that’s kind of our new growing fear as well. All right, well, let’s move on to headline #2 let’s get to something a little more exciting, a little more fun, a little more futuristic, for lack of a better word, and that is that Schnucks is expanding its Caper card pilot. According to an Instacart press release, Schnucks is expanding its Caper Cart to even more stores across Missouri and expanding into Illinois, marking the first time the smart cards will be available in the state of Illinois. In addition, Instacart is also adding a new feature to its carts. And are you, boy, do you know what it is? It’s a lower tray. Yes, the Instacart Caper Cart now has a lower tray.

00:16:05 Anne
Can I put my kids on that? Can I put my kids on that?

00:16:08 Chris
I think you can add cancel Christmas. It’s got a lower tray. The option now makes it easier for customers to add heavier, bulkier items such as cases of water, soda and pet food to the cart. Or possibly even 8 year old children and if.

00:16:23 Anne
Well, give it a world.

00:16:24 Chris
So Desire, yes, quote, it’s clear to us that customers love shopping with caper cards and at our newly launched stores, we’re seeing many times throughout the day where all 10 cards are in use. End Quote, said Chuck McMullen, Senior Director of Digital Experience at Schnucks. Jeff, going back to you Schnucks, from our recollection, actually Ann and I were talking about this yesterday. From our recollection, it may be actually the first retailer to announce that it is expanding its use of caper cards. Therefore, how significant is this moment in the annals of grocery history?

00:17:00 Jeff
This is a this is a fun one significance in history. Like, I don’t know, I think in terms of, of, you know, the, the self checkout equivalent revolution. It’s I think the jury’s still out for me, but I, I do believe it, it will slowly become more normal. And as as a, a patron who actually went to their outside their Saint Louis location and and experienced this, it’s pretty cool. I mean, for me, I, I, I’m more of a convenient shopper. I want to get in, I want to get out it, it is definitely for a specific demographic. And so I think as you see it rolled out, it’ll be in the limited capacity, you know, 10 carts and in a store that has 150 of them that it’s, it’s a small component of the overall experience right now. And maybe it maybe it fits in, in some of the higher end grocery models. But yeah, I’m I’m selling this as a moment in time, akin to a Piggly Wiggly opening 100 years ago.

00:17:57 Chris
OK, got it. Good, good reference, man. OK, wait, so wait, so you’re kind of a one of and he’s a Jeff’s a one of one on this show. Like he’s actually tried the caper card. I don’t think I’ve actually seen anyone that doesn’t work for a retailer that’s tried the caper card. So, so what’s your what’s your review of it? Like what? What you like? What you not like about it?

00:18:12 Jeff
It’s it’s, it’s right up my alley. Who wants to literally just go and throw things in a cart and then walk out the the store and click a button to pay and and you’re out the door? I couldn’t tell you the last time I actually stood in a non self checkout other than the fact that you have to buy alcohol and occasionally have to go to the actual person to check you out. I I’m a convenient shopper. I want to get in, get out. My wife hates the fact that that I do a grocery run because I’m I’m she wants me out of the house and I’m probably back faster than she needs me, but it’s it’s a great experience. I mean, the cart’s a little wonky. It can’t really fit as as much as like a traditional shopping cart. So it is more of the kind of smaller components, the bottom capacity, I mean, it could hold like a 12 pack of water, not one of the big Costco size ones. So it’s, but it’s a, it’s a, it’s a good model. I mean, I, I, I definitely put more stuff in my basket than I think I would have normally done otherwise. So it’s it’ll be interesting to see how this gets rolled out to, to Illinois and.

00:19:13 Chris
Here’s 2 thumbs up on the card itself. Like for you as a shopper. You you, you liked it, you liked using it, you’d use it again.

00:19:19 Jeff
I I, I liked the convenience of it. OK yeah. And the card itself is, is a little bit, like I said, wonky, but they’ll get that fixed. They’ll figure it out. But it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not going anywhere. I think we actually probably see a little bit more of this. But whether it’s fully penetrated like a self checkout line item or line, I’m I’m not, I’m not sold quite yet.

00:19:42 Chris
Not sure yet. Right, right, right. And what do you think here?

00:19:46 Anne
You know.

00:19:46 Chris
What do you think this on the on the movement in grocery grocery history? Is it Piggly Wiggly? Is it less like? Where is it?

00:19:53 Anne
I don’t know. I mean, I was just talking to a regional pretty major regional grocer last week who’s also going forward with the Amazon Dash cart in their in their grocer. And it it surprises me. But I think for me, Chris, I mean plain and simple, I think it’s just a test of how far along this technology has come and what the caper carts are able to do and I think. What I was hearing from that particular retailer was that they’re being sold hard now on the future capabilities, especially as it relates to retail media that they can add into this, even like cameras on the carts and being able to do walk, you know, padding and understanding out of stocks in a store. So I think it’s getting to the point where the tipping point where it’s like, OK, these are finally providing a return on the massive investment that you have to make to bring them into stores. So is it something that we’re testing in more, more cases like we’re seeing with Schnucks here?

00:20:51 Chris
Yeah, and I don’t know when I when I hear you talk like that, though, it reminds me of the old SNL commercial, you know, with Dan Aykroyd. Like, you know, it’s a floor wax, but it’s also a dessert topping. I think that’s where people start to get a little too excited about the innovation and and the potential of what they what it can do and trying to find the use cases. But I agree with Jeff. I don’t think this is like Piggly Wiggly momentous change in the history of grocery shopping. But I do think it’s a pretty significant move here because, you know, it passes my litmus test that we’ve talked about on the show a lot, which is implementations are one thing. Software providers or hardware providers in this case, are always talking about their implementations. They’re always talking about, you know, here’s how many places we’re located. But the one thing you never hear much about is that second implementation, the expansion. And so I’m always skeptical until they reach the second rollout stage because that means you’ve proved the ROI at the first stage. Now, granted, it’s 10 carts, you know, for the most part in one of these stores, like Jeff said, like the headline said. So there’s still a lot more to find out here, but they’re finding out enough to say, yes, we want to continue to move forward with it and see if there’s an idea here. But yes, the jury is still out on whether or not these are ultimately going to work in the long run, especially against all the other options that you have around retail media via the phone, via installations on screens in the store, in store radio and, and all the other things you can do with cameras and robots and everything else, or even just AI in terms of understanding the dynamics of how your store is working on a daily basis. So I think a lot more to prove, but this is interesting in the fact that Schnucks, which is one of the smartest grocers around, is saying, hey, we’re going to expand this. I think that’s important.

00:22:23 Anne
Right. And, and you just brought up another question, Chris, like how many carts are they expanding to all these locations? Like are they still going to go with the 10 cart per store test? Or is this going to be, are we going to start to see more carts in action versus, you know, here’s a few options or here’s one option, because it also requires some infrastructural changes too to all of these stores, Chris, which we haven’t talked about yet either. And so I, I think there’s a lot more to be gleaned from this rollout and what it ends up looking like and, and really starting to get into the details of how many makes sense and what the real investment is. All right. Headline #3 Shopify could soon be integrating with ChatGPT search. According to media post recent Co discovery suggests that open AI is preparing to transform ChatGPT into a direct shopping platform. Through Shopify integration, Open AI is quietly added lines of code to ChatGPT that indicate direct shopping functionality. Rather than simply adding affiliate links, the code suggests A deeper integration that would enable ChatGPT users to complete purchases without ever leaving the platform. The uncovered code indicates features including product pricing, displays, shipping information fields, buy now options, and embedded checkout buttons, essentially transforming the AI chat bot into a comprehensive shopping interface. The model appears designed to allow Shopify to to directly populate ChatGPT with relevant product suggestions based on user conversations, creating a seamless shopping experience that keeps users within the ChatGPT ecosystem. Luis, we’re, we’re talking about moving the needle technology right now. This is definitely one of those headlines. How scared should people like Google be in this by this ChatGPT and Shopify integration?

00:24:19 Luis
Very, I mean, the AI is a revolution, right? It’s, it’s impacting, it’s going to impact all sectors of the economy. It’s impacting our, our lives at many different levels. And it’s, you know, maybe some slightly frightening, but very exciting at the same time with the with all the everything that can be done. And one big question, obviously is where is the value going to lie in the value chain? And we’re going to be the winners. And that’s true within the technology players and the ones who are actually building the algorithms. Is it going to be a commodity is open AI tomorrow is going to be displaced in its leadership by the other players, Google, including DeepSeek and, and many others? That’s a big question. And the second question is how exactly is it going to impact in, in our case here corporate America and, and consumer and a lot of the, the CE OS and, and executives that I talked to about these topics, they’re still in the consumer space, still scratching their heads on where is the impact going to lie? How does it really transform my company? How quickly and what should I do?

00:25:39 Anne
Right and.

00:25:40 Luis
And that’s from how do you hit corporate America and how are you a winner? If you look at the the Shopify integration and that’s more from the technology standpoint and the offer, is it going to be a winner takes all where ChatGPT once they start offering that functionality and become a one stop shop where you can actually buy from your app and do all of the the functions that you typically go on Google for. Does that make Google obsolete and online e-commerce shopping world? So if I’m Google, I’m scared.

00:26:15 Anne
Right, right. I mean, it’s, it’s like the search, the search. I feel like we’re back when like Google came online and it was Bing and Google Netscape and like all these things really like, it’s like the search is starting all over again and, and it’s really anyones game because once you start getting integration, I mean, we heard it shop talk from from Sean Scott, the head of Google shopping, who was like already, you know, we’re we’re seeing engagement happen in Google and Google’s not a retailer, but they’re facilitating all of these shopping transactions. I think like 20% of lens searches, he said, are already ending in a commerce transaction. So it it’s so interesting because it’s going to be who do you go to for your, your problem solver? Is it perplexity? Is it ChatGPT right? Is it, is it Google, Gemini and and or Amazon even like we heard a couple weeks ago where you can go in there and, and transact fully just by sending in one request? I’m, I’m curious, Louise, because I talked about to several retailers last week about this. Are, are those CE OS in, in these retailers and brands? Are they taking any steps forward right now to kind of prepare their products to be showing up in these types of search engines? Or do you think that they’re still kind of, it’s still in its infancy?

00:27:35 Luis
Still still in the infancy and you’re going to see, I mean, a lot of those CEOs are, are thinking how do I gain competitive advantage? So the ones who are more bold and you know, take more risk or more visionary or able to focus out of, you know, the day-to-day grind into projects, projecting into the future. There’s trying to to get into the AI revolution in a much faster way and right both, but they still don’t know where to focus the energy, right. You can only do so much, right? So is being present on the, you know, the future ChatGPT, Shopify, is that you know, should that be your focus or are you continuing to do what you’re doing, trying to optimize the day-to-day business? So those are strategic questions of how they allocate their resources and there’s not a clear, clear cut answer on that yet.

00:28:32 Anne
Right. Yeah. Jeff, I assume you’re hearing a lot from the clients that you’re working with as it relates to this too and where it makes sense. I mean this I, I feel like it’s still kind of like a in the R&D kind of category for some retailers, but maybe moving going to require that they move much more quickly. What are you seeing Jeff, with your clients?

00:28:52 Jeff
Yeah, it’s, it’s mostly confusion around around how this is actually going to all kind of end. I, I, I, I do believe this is going to be faster than A10 cart roll out on, on a, on a digital shopping cart. We will see, we will see a lot of bets being placed. Capital is already being allocated to, to huge tech investments in, in trying to be that differentiator as Luis mentioned and, and trying to get that competitive advantage that you’re going to, you’re going to see some, some pretty interesting things coming not in the next two to three years. You’re talking next probably 2 to 3/4. And I think, I think it’ll, I, I think it’ll be positive mostly from a just a consumer experience, but from a retail experience, it could be a huge, huge unlock to either access new customers or actually even save on the amount of money that they’re placing with that with overall marketing expense. So right, right. It’ll be interesting to.

00:29:47 Luis
See, companies need to start to have an answer. Even just from an investor communication standpoint, you’re seeing more and more on earnings calls. The question from analysts, you know, how are you preparing for the AI revolution? What are you doing? What actions are you taking? So there’s a pressure as well from investors to get ready for this revolution.

00:30:10 Anne
Right, absolutely. And Chris, I mean, what do you, what would you be doing if you were Google right now or how would you be feeling? How would you be rallying the troops?

00:30:19 Chris
Well, I don’t know. I mean, I think what I take away from this conversation really is I think Luis’s point about, you know, how does CPG, the thing I started thinking about the most in this conversation is like, how does CPGS view this announcement versus retailers? If I’m a CPGI, don’t think I’m paying too much attention to this because I think my job is at the end of the day is to develop good products and make sure they’re available for the people. And so I don’t think you know how people transact and those is really going to impact the CPGS all that much down the line, or at least I have trouble seeing it. I think there’s advantages that they can or they can take advantage of advantage of Gen. AI for different use cases, but I’m not too worried about, you know, the advent of the impact on this for them. But for the retailers, to Jeff’s point, it’s just incredibly disruptive. And then going back to the question at hand of, you know, how scared should Google be or what should Google do? I mean, I think at this point, the thing as I sit back, I think everybody’s scared of everybody at this point because you throw a jet, take AI into the mix, which this isn’t even about yet in in the core of this headline. And it’s going to be hard to know who is actually empowering what at the end of the day, right? Like it, all these things could be working together and no one knows what’s going on. You don’t know your arm from your elbow. So and the the idea of like user search here being what powers this too, That’s in some ways so old school now when you bring in a Gentek AI. And that’s the crazy thing about that to Jeff’s point too, is that’s two years old at this point. Yeah. So like it’s just amazing to me how fast all of this is changing. And the average retail C, average retail CEO, not CPGCO, but the average retail CEO likely has no idea what is likely going to hit him or her here over the next five years. And it’s going to be, it’s going to be crazy to watch. I mean, that’s why you and I were talking yesterday too, like this is the most important headline of the week, like of the five, this one by far and away in terms of the impact on retail overall over the next 10 years. The movement in this direction continues to be something we got to keep it keep on top of. All right, well, let’s bring Julian on to today’s show. Joining us now for five inside 5 minutes is Julian Mills, a frequent Omni Talk guest and the CEO of Corso. Coming off our story last week regarding Corso and Circle K, Julian is here to discuss the rise and value of an intelligent store management solution. Julian, let’s start with this. You’ve partnered with some big retailers recently like Circle Ki just mentioned, as well as EG and Walmart Mexico to deploy intelligent management. What’s driving these retailers to adopt your solution and to make these moves?

00:32:52 Julian
Yes. And Chris, first of all, it’s great to be back. Thanks for having me. And second, yeah, we’ve, we, we’re on a bit of a roll and those are just the ones we can talk about. If there are others, we can’t. It’s very exciting. And I, I think what’s happening really is, as you know better than I do, running a store is really complex. There are so many things that come at you every day. The truck’s late, you know, planograms not laid out, promotions incorrectly done, you know, etcetera. Hundreds and hundreds of things for store manager. And I think retailers are realizing that sending yet another spreadsheet or yet another e-mail or yet another dashboard, etcetera, doesn’t actually fix those problems in the store. You need to have a new way of running your store, a new way of using data to surface those problems and prioritize them to the person who can actually take action on them. And that, of course, is what we’re doing, you know, with intelligent management.

00:33:44 Anne
Well, Julian, intelligent management always comes to life best when we get an example. Is there one that you can share with our audience today?

00:33:52 Julian
Yeah, sure. So I, I think a classic one would be something like promotion execution. So we’re working with a big grocer. They found that about 30% of promotions weren’t being executed correctly or you know, on a timely basis. So what course they can do is basically track the kind of sales ramp up of those promotions and alert people if promotions aren’t, you know, accelerating. If you’re not seeing the sales of those items accelerate in the way that you’d expect to given a promotion. And then suggest to the relevant manager, whether it’s a department manager or a store manager, how much, you know, sales they’re missing out by not acting on it. Yeah. So you’re using data to basically identify the fact that promotion isn’t being correctly implemented and showing someone the opportunity cost of that. But of course, that’s just, you know, one layer of it. You can also link it up and say to the district manager, well, you know, this store’s having a problem implementing promotions. You know, they’ve had four of these kind of instances in the last week. Maybe you should go and have a chat with them and give them some coaching so you can kind of link up layers of management in that way.

00:34:58 Chris
Got it. So it’s basically like helping the store level cross your TS and dot their eyes, which is, which is one reason why Anne and I, since we first met you guys, you know, 5 or 6 years ago, have been all in on this, on this idea. But but being all in on the idea and, and making sense intuitively is one thing. But how do retailers that you’re working with actually form the business case around this? Because I think a lot of people listening would probably be like, OK, how do I put numbers to this?

00:35:23 Julian
Yeah. Well, look, the first thing is we’re outrageously good value. Yeah. So we earn about 3% of the cost of, you know, putting in cameras or robots or something like that. So they’re 30 times as expensive and we do hundreds of use cases and they probably do a couple. So that’s the first one, which is the, you know, the cost on the benefit side is usually three things. So it’s first of all business improvement. So you know, 50 to 120 basis points sales uplift, you know, 30 basis points shrink reduction, you know, 20% reduction in overtime, etcetera, 20% improvement in store standards, etcetera. So that’s kind of direct benefits. The second one is time saving. So you know people are typically seeing 10 to 15% of a kind of managers time or key holders time saved because they’re not having to go into the backroom, pull up lots of different apps, look at lots of different reports, makes sense to them, etcetera. They’re literally on the sales floor walking around fixing issues live. And then the third one is, you know, store technology stacks are quite complicated. Most people have 567 different applications they’re running with walks and tasks, etcetera. We’re increasingly seeing people turning those off and bringing everything into Corso and that’s typically delivering about a 30% kind of IT saving from that.

00:36:40 Anne
Julian, this seems so incredibly intuitive. Why isn’t every retailer doing this right now?

00:36:47 Julian
Well, I think it’s a great question. Obviously, I think they should have.

00:36:52 Anne
Yeah, I mean, we do too, I think.

00:36:55 Julian
Yeah. So, So I can’t really say. I’d say the two main objections we hear are, one, I think a lot of retailers think anything to do with data they should be building themselves. Yeah. And what I’d say is I’ve heard that so many times and I don’t think anyone has done that yet. You know, and having been doing this for a while now, you know, I think that promise is getting a little bit thin. So if I were a retailer, I’d be getting really, are you going to do it? And then I think the second thing is getting access to IT resource. You know what very quick stand up. I mean, circle Ki think stood us up initially in about 2530 hours of IT time, but IT needs to just super busy at the moment. And so even getting, you know, 3-4 days of someone’s time could be quite difficult.

00:37:43 Chris
Yeah, that’s fascinating too, because there’s really no competitive advantage in trying to do this yourself. It’s just, it’s just basically try the data that you need to block and tackle in your store operations better. So like, I don’t understand why what the need is to bring that in the house.

00:37:54 Julian
I think retailers typically have two concerns. The first one is that they don’t want data to leave. You know their environment and I understand that and candidly you can set up corso to the data and never leaves your environment. The second one is, oh, but you know, maybe our data analytics team has got some special secret sauce, you know, about how to detect promotions, you know, not correctly implemented. Again, that’s fine. You can run that through Corso. You know, Corso is a platform you can use to set up and operationalize those things very quickly and get them out of the field very quickly. You know, if it’s secret to you, it’s your special recipe, you know, that can remain confidential. So I don’t think either of those concerns are really kind of valid, if that makes sense. But maybe we’re not doing, you know, maybe we need to communicate that better.

00:38:38 Chris
Great stuff, Julian, man. So insightful and so articulate and it’s just so intuitive. And I, I, I love having Julian on.

00:38:45 Anne
Thanks, Julian. Great.

00:38:49 Chris
All right, headline #4 PepsiCo CEO says that it is quote, accelerating it’s transition to natural ingredients. According to Food Dive. PepsiCo CEO said during Pepsico’s first quarter earnings call with analysts on Thursday that the Cheetos and Doritos maker, my favorite and Doritos plans to have transitioned quote all the portfolio into natural colors or at least provide the consumer with natural color options and quote in the next quote couple years. And quote the comments came two days after Health and Human Services. This Secretary Robert F Kennedy Junior announced the department wants food companies to voluntarily remove or replace commonly used synthetic colors before the end of 2026. However, replacing synthetic colors with natural ones, Anne and friends is not easy. It can be hard to find a suitable replacement, and consumers sometimes don’t like the new color. Don’t take my Doritos, PepsiCo. Case in point, in 20 in 2016, General Mills changed several cereals, including tricks, as part of its pledge to remove artificial colors and flavors. I just started thinking about the Liam Neeson when he wants to buy tricks in the one of the tech movies. Buy consumer complaints and a decline in sales. General Mills brought back tricks with artificial colors a year later. I guess tricks just aren’t for kids. Louise, how should food companies be preparing to voluntarily remove or replace artificial colors before 2027? Is this timeline also even real? Realistic. This feels like it’s in your wheelhouse.

00:40:23 Luis
I love that the voluntarily, I mean, maybe it’s an American thing and, and companies love to voluntarily comply with that with new regulation. But but that’s, that’s going to be a big question because as you said, it’s, it’s not easy to do. So as long as it’s voluntary. I’m not sure you’ll see a lot of people raise their hands and do it first. But you mentioned and, and rightfully so that you know the colors aren’t going to be the same, the brightness isn’t going to be the same. And you need to educate the consumer. That’s going to be a big change. And if you look at shelves in France and where I’m from versus shelves in the US, it’s actually pretty different. The colors are just less vibrant in France because all of those artificial colorings are most of them are banned already. So how quickly will the US consumer adapts to, to the new offering? That’s a question mark from the R&D perspective. You know, how do you actually replace, reformulate and validate your, your new formulas with, with natural colorings? That’s going to be quite tricky. And the timeline doesn’t seem, you know, 2026 end of 2026, we’re already in 2026 when you’re, you’re thinking corporate America right now and from a planning standpoint. So that seems extremely short from an R&D standpoint. And finally, third is how do you get the relevant supply base? So a lot of a lot of your suppliers who work in Europe, they already have the supply chain that that can have your your natural coloring, but you need to bring it to the US The volumes are going to change. So it puts pressure and the prices are going to change. So are the consumers going to want to buy for more expensive something that looks less good from the American standards going to be a big question mark as well. So we’ll see how it goes out. If it’s voluntary, not sure that will work. If it’s forced by by the regulator, you don’t really have a choice. So that might make things work faster.

00:42:37 Chris
Yeah, it’s a question of how long you can breathe for, you know, how much time they give you to breathe. But eventually, eventually you have to think that some type of regulation is coming in this vein, which is, you know, for me, I think about it, I step back and I say, OK, then there’s a problem side. And then with every problem, there’s an opportunity. And the problem side is you got to get ready for the regulation. So you have to start trying to do this. Like the point I made in the last headline too, You got to put your product road map out. You got to lay it out in front of you, and you got to put a plan in place, product by product and see what you can do on the timeline, right. But it’s not the time to breathe easy. We heard the same thing with regards to FISMA from Angela Fernandez of GS1 the earlier this weekend. Remember that where she said in relation to that timeline moving out, that regulation moving out, you still have to do the work and get it done. It’s not a time to relax. But the opportunity side to Luis, I’m curious about this is with all with this trend happening. I think from a product development side, it it tells the CPG companies that they need to lever up on the idea of food is medicine, continue to develop products in that vein to take advantage of where the trend is all going. Overall, from a consumer perspective, how do you think about the new product development in relation to this headline?

00:43:40 Luis
Yeah, for sure. Having, you know, healthier food and communicating on it and, you know, finding new consumer pockets who are inclined to pay more for healthier and better products. Yes, But in the current environment with high inflationary, inflationary pressures, you’re actually going the opposite direction where a lot of consumers are, are forgoing more sustainable and healthier products for cheaper products, which often focus less on, on health or sustainable aspects. So it’s, it’s a little bit of a tricky place for smaller CPGS that are already focused on the premium market. Yeah, they, they’re, they’re there. They can have, you know, natural coloring, more sustainable products for the more mass market. It’s the the winners are going to be the ones that are able to comply with regulation with the best price, which means they’ll have done a lot of work on their supply chain and negotiated the best deals and found the best suppliers. So.

00:44:51 Chris
Yeah, you’re right. There’s a lot of conflicting forces at play here. And what’s your take here? What? What’s coming to mind for you?

00:44:56 Anne
I am just, this is one of those times where you’re like, Oh my God, Americans were so embarrassing that we have to, we, the General Mills went back to artificially flavored tricks like we. So in my mind, it’s like unless there is a regulation, nothing’s going to change. Like we need the regulation, I think, to shift American consumer understanding of like getting those good quality ingredients, ingredients versus artificial ingredients in our food. Otherwise, this is never going to happen. Like I had a friend who used to work for Kraft. She was a food scientist for Kraft and her job for three years was just trying to figure out how to make Kraft macaroni and cheese that wasn’t bright orange and still tasted the same. And it was like the Holy Grail for I mean, she she probably is still working on it to this day. And I think again, like until this becomes something that we have to do and American consumers understand is like this is, is where products are going. We’re going the way of Europe where we just don’t have artificial flavorings and colors in our food anymore. Like it’s never going to work because we’re just so accustomed.

00:46:01 Luis
Europe and Canada.

00:46:02 Anne
And yeah.

00:46:03 Luis
By the way.

00:46:04 Anne
Almost every other nation except for the US, right? Like, yeah, lots of people are seeing the light here. And I think it’s going to take that regulation before the American consumer gets on board.

00:46:14 Chris
Shout out to all our Canadian listeners up north. Yeah, and to Lisa’s point aunt too. You got to get. And what can Americans afford too? That $0.99 box of Kraft Mac macaroni and cheese is is pretty attractive to a lot of consumers. Jeff, what’s the last word here?

00:46:31 Jeff
Last word I I I agree that it’s coming and it and it will happen, but I hope they can make my red vines as red as they as red as I like them.

00:46:39 Anne
Oh, your Red Vines are in big trouble, Jeff, You and Chris both. You guys better stock up.

00:46:45 Chris
I had eight of them yesterday, believe it or not, Jeff, literally, I had eight, eight of them yesterday. I’m like on an 8A day binge right now. I’m, I’m so into Red Vines right now. It’s crazy. It’s diabetes. Here we come.

00:46:56 Anne
All right, well, let’s move on to headline #5 we’re going to talk about Schnuck’s once more. Schnuck’s plans to test local products via an incubator, according to Grocery Dive. A year after launching its business accelerator program, Schnuck Markets announced Tuesday will introduce products from the program’s first cohort of local businesses in 15 of its Saint Louis area stores. The program, called Schnuck’s Springboard, provides local, diverse owned businesses with education, resources and access to the grocery company’s existing customer base. Starting Wednesday, 11 Miss 11 Missouri and four Illinois Schnucks stores will offer the company’s products in a four week trial to help introduce the new goods to to their shoppers. The grocery has also reportedly scheduled sampling events for the first weekend in May. That’s this weekend people head out to all your Schnucks select locations in Missouri and Illinois. I’m going to go to you first. Jeff. Generally speaking, are you pro or con the idea of local incubators within grocery stores?

00:48:06 Jeff
The concepts it’s, I mean, I think you’re a terrible person if you’re not pro of it. I, I, I, it’s the, it’s a, it’s a great concept that I think does a lot for a local community. Now, whether it is a profitable or the right strategic direction for a larger company to employ, I, I think is if it’s looking for a click, you know, banner headlines, it to be the, the, the unlock for them. I, I’m not a big proponent of it, but I actually am not surprised at Schnucks given their family, family owned and operated history, seeing what they’re doing and, and particularly in the markets that they’re going to employ it. I actually don’t think they were looking for a headline here. I actually, I actually believe they were, they were doing this because they, they they want to get some unknown local family owned and operated brands more, more exposure. And I think when you do it for that, for that manner and in that capacity, it works. When you do it at a for for a headline or or a consumer talking piece, I think it’s it’s lost but.

00:49:11 Anne
Jeff, I have to, I have to bring back something you said earlier in the podcast because this is something that I’m wondering about with some of these incubators. What happens when tariffs hit these small companies? Like when you’ve you’ve invested all this money in a local incubator and you were talking about major retailers potentially going out of business this summer. I mean, what is what impact could tariffs have on these programs for the small brand that suddenly is paying three times the amount of money for organic flaxseed coming from overseas?

00:49:42 Jeff
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s lights out. I mean, I, I, unless you can, can, can think about your, your pricing and promotional strategy in a, in a, in a very quick manner, it’ll be very challenging for, for some of these smaller bespoke brands that are, are heavily reliant on, on the sourcing of their goods outside of, of the US to, to weather the type of, of pressure that they’re, they’re, they’re we’re going to, we’re going to face and we are facing right now. You know, look, I think there’s still some brands that do it well. I think there’s huck Berry as an example. Huck Berry, I, I love everything that they do and they source a lot of bespoke unique brands, obviously US based, but they do some international, a lot of international actually brands and, and it’ll be, and they don’t, they don’t do it for the promo. They don’t do it for the for for the advertisement, but I do believe that you have a an opportunity with some of these smaller brands to lean into. But it’ll be interesting to see how many are actually left at the at the end of this if this isn’t resolved.

00:50:50 Anne
Yeah, Louise, how would you be advising your partners at A&M or your clients at A&M if they’re, you know, if this is the strategy that they have to bring in new customers and and really help bolster some of the local businesses?

00:51:07 Luis
I think one question and that’s, you know, Jeff with the CFO services hat kind of alluded to it, is, is it the right use of capital and resources for a grocer to be investing in, in helping develop those, those companies? And that’s a real question on, you know, how stretched can you can you be? Do you want to have the grocer just focused on their core business and other VCs or other players are are supporting and bringing the new players to to the grocer who will then distribute it? Or do you want to integrate? And do you think that because you’re a grocer, you have actually a specific set of knowledge, you know, the customers, you can very quickly scale the, the new products in your stores and help accelerate. So, so that’s a strategic question that you have to, to answer. And it depends on the DNA of, of the company. And some companies have turned into good incubators on on the side, but not many. So, and you actually see a lot of the from the consumer standpoint, a lot of the big players, you know, if you think the Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Doctor Peppers and others, typically they try incubating, they try developing small companies, but not that many or even Loreal in the beauty space or not many emerge very small. And how it typically works well is when they acquire a company that’s already scaled, that’s no longer a startup and and that they can integrate in their view, so.

00:52:51 Anne
Right. That’s the biggest thing is can you, can you scale if you, if you do take off in the local four or five stores, Are you ready to go chain wide and how quickly? So it’s more complex, you’re saying, than pro or con? Chris, I’ll give you the last word, pro or con.

00:53:07 Chris
I feel like the last two times we’ve had A&M on the show and like, you know, like I, I, I get very vociferous in my I, I don’t think I disagree with you guys. Actually, I think I agree with Louise. And but I’m going to, I’m going to come at Jeff a little bit and say, I guess I’m the bad person that is caught for the local, the local products in grocery stores because I think Louise hit it on the head. Like I don’t think most retailers have the stomach to do these for the long term. So like with that, I say, I like I with that said, I’m pro the idea as long as you are 100% committed to it being an idea to give back to the community for the long term, like I’m talking forever or as or as R&D and like you’re just comfortable losing that money every year. And again, you’re going to do it every year for the R&D because chances are when when you’re when these items are stacked up against every item in the store. I’ve said this 1000 times on the show. These brands are small for a reason. They wouldn’t get in the shelf. They wouldn’t get on the shelves otherwise. So you’re going to lose money on them more often than not. Sure, are you going to get a winner? Yeah, maybe every once in a while. But it’s not going to offset the cost of trying to do this day in and day out. And the chances are to lose this point. The winners will get onto your shelves naturally anyway. That’s just how this works. So net, net, I don’t, I don’t think it’s a good investment of capital for the average retailer to think about. Like I just, I just have not bought in on it. But again, Schnucks very important in the local community. If they’re beholden to the idea of supporting local entrepreneurs, then fine. But we’ve seen other examples, particularly in our local market where they say they’re going to do this and then they pull the plug on it because they need to find some other growth opportunities and that’s just a waste of time in my opinion.

00:54:44 Anne
Yeah. So well said. I think that’s that’s also like where’s the budget coming from? Is this a marketing thing where you’re trying to get like are you using these local brands as marketing to draw you into your local store? That’s a marketing budget then that’s not a merchandising plan at that point in time too. So it’s really changing how you’re thinking about it, right, Chris?

00:55:03 Chris
Yeah, And I’d say too, like as a former merchant looking at my adjacencies or my space plan on, you know, in a store, in the average store, as soon as I start to see the the average dollars per square foot of these items being incredibly low, I’m going after that. And I’m making a play for it because I want to bring in something and I want to be the hero in my organization that helps drive comp growth year over year. So that’s what end up most of the time ends up happening here. You’ve got to have a really strong leadership that’s going to stick to this idea.

00:55:30 Anne
Right, all right, let’s go to the lightning round you guys. Jeff, you get the first question here. 711 has snagged the naming rights to Live Nations When We Were Young, a pop punk emo festival held annually in Las Vegas. It’s the first time Live Nation has sold the rights for AUS Festival. Jeff, what’s the best music festival you’ve ever attended? Or if you haven’t attended 1 yet, which one would you most like to attend?

00:55:58 Jeff
Great question, I it’s been a while but the the last music festival that was was is worth this response. I was actually in outside of Auckland. I don’t even know what the festival was called. I I’d met some random travellers in in my early 20s and got invited to a a concert with it was Major Lazer Pearl Jam Snoop was there.

00:56:19 Anne
Oh my God.

00:56:21 Jeff
It was, it was definitely quite the day, but I couldn’t even tell you the name of it. It was outside of Auckland and it was a party.

00:56:28 Anne
So naming, naming rights are relevant. It’s really about who’s there. So hopefully the at the We Were Young When We Were Young Pop, Emo and Punk festival, they get some good people to headline that show.

00:56:40 Jeff
I think that’s the take away.

00:56:43 Chris
It’s reported that Miami Vice is getting a reboot from Maverick Top Gun Maverick director Joseph Kaczynski. I’m curious, are you more Crockett or Tubs?

00:56:54 Luis
Why choose?

00:56:56 Chris
White shoes all right, you’re, you’re equally in on both you’re, you’re, you’re equally invested your portfolio is.

00:57:01 Luis
5050 I love, I love their style and I love I love what they represent. So I can’t wait to I can’t wait for it to come out. Oh.

00:57:12 Anne
My God. All right, question #3 Luis, this goes back to you. Target just launched a line of sustainable wine that will be served in new compostable paper wine bottles. I have to know, Louise, being the Frenchman on our show, would you ever bring a paper wine bottle to a party? Or are you drinking at this this at home? Or are you buying it at all?

00:57:38 Luis
No, you said it. I’m French, so no, I would never bring that to a party, but I actually appreciate the industry’s, the wine industry’s ability to to transform and adapt and bring, you know, more sustainability. And in fact, those bottles look pretty cool. So maybe maybe one day, maybe one day. And I remember when it used to be you go from cork to screw caps, all the classic French people were were up in arms. And in fact, it keeps the wine better and it’s got lots of advantages, so and people have grown used to them. So we’ll see about the paper bottles. Oh.

00:58:14 Anne
Boy.

00:58:14 Chris
So Louise, follow up question that if someone were if you were at a party and somewhere were to someone were to bring a paper wine bottle to the party, would you disdain them as a Frenchman? I’m curious.

00:58:25 Luis
No, I would actually be curious to try what’s in it.

00:58:28 Chris
All right, nicely done. Nicely done. All right, last one. Beyoncé kicked off the Cowboy Carter tour on Monday in Inglewood, CA Jeff, this one is just for you. What is your favorite Beyoncé song?

00:58:41 Jeff
I may get skewered for this response, but, and only because I’m a country fan, I have to go with Texas Holdem for for the New Age. But if we’re, if we’re talking Beyoncé legacy, I, I probably go back to the early 2000s when she’s in Destiny’s Child and and go bills, bills, bills.

00:58:59 Anne
I love that you. I love that Jeff appropriately quoted Destiny’s Child so that Michelle and all the other team get incorporated into that, included in that song, the headlines for that song. But oh man, I got a Bodyguard. Bodyguard is the best Beyoncé song I think of all time from this album. Like, I’m so upset that they’re not going to be. It’s not coming through Minneapolis, so might have to catch them on the road.

00:59:27 Chris
It’s not. Oh, wow. Well, I’m going to go with all the Single Ladies, all the Single Ladies, and we’re going to also Japanese child. Yes, it was. I thought that was Beyoncé Jeff way in here.

00:59:38 Jeff
It’s a single.

00:59:39 Luis
Lady.

00:59:40 Chris
It was dusty, child. Oh, it was okay, all right, all right. God Dang, I had no idea. All right, with that note, I’m going to go out eating micro and say happy birthday today to Anna de Armas, Kirsten Dunst and to the man who and will no doubt not be surprised that I cannot name one of his songs as evidenced by everyone listening to this podcast. Now to Travis Scott and remember if you can only read or listen to 1 retail blog in the business, make it Omni talked only retail media outlet run by two former executives from the current top ten US retailer. Our Fast 5 podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week’s top news, and our daily newsletter, The Retail Daily Minute, tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us and that Anna and I take pride in doing just for you. Thanks as always for listening in. Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube. You can follow us today by simply going to youtube.com/omni Talk Retail and Jeff, if people are interested in following along with the A&M Consumer and retail group or want to reach out to either one of you and and get your insights into their business, what’s the best way for them to do that?

01:00:48 Jeff
Yeah, thank you. And thank you, Chris. Always, always a blast on this. So best way to find us is on LinkedIn or you can visit thealvarezandmarcelconsumerandretailgroupwebsite@alvarezandmarcel-crg.com. That’s Alvarez and Marcel Dash, crg.com.

01:01:07 Chris
Awesome, awesome. Well, until next week. Thank you both for being here. And Louise, Jeff, have a great weekend. And to all our fans out there, we hope you have a wonderful one as well. On behalf of all of us at Omni Talk, be careful out there.